J1) You could probably find nicer than spier second hand, but anticipate needing tailoring and not having your most favored cuts / detailing. You also might have to source your own accessories, so extra new or used hunting there.
2) you’d probably save money, sure. New tux package from susu was like 1K, and would work out to be close at spier - you could definitely scoop a far cheaper one off eBay, but you’re saving time in paying for new.
4) You could probably take a look at Alfargos marketplace, but the density of black tie is going to be little-to-none. Better bet than goodwill in the sticks tho.
5) Grailed, styleforum classified (probs your best bet), vinted
2) you’d probably save money, sure. New tux package from susu was like 1K, and would work out to be close at spier - you could definitely scoop a far cheaper one off eBay, but you’re saving time in paying for new.
4) You could probably take a look at Alfargos marketplace, but the density of black tie is going to be little-to-none. Better bet than goodwill in the sticks tho.
5) Grailed, styleforum classified (probs your best bet), vinted
CMy tux is a canali corneliani I got on eBay for £160, so yes it's do able. I brought my shirt, studs and silks new. Helps a lot to have a suit that fits well for comparison and be willing to send a lot of messages to find something that is right/just a bit big/needs minimal tailoring.
I resold one that didn't work.
Check the styleforum suit hierarchy for some brand ideas.
You could probably also look at yoox, the real real, vesitaire and other online consignment .
I resold one that didn't work.
Check the styleforum suit hierarchy for some brand ideas.
You could probably also look at yoox, the real real, vesitaire and other online consignment .
CGoogle Docs
Master List
f,Brand,Rating,Construction,Cloth,Cut or Fit (MTM),Styling & Details,RRP,Lowest Avg Sale Price ,Avg 'Ebay' Price ,RRP,Lowest Avg Sale Price ,Avg 'Ebay' Price ,Garments manufactured by (historical and present)
Canvas,Lining Material (rayon or poly? etc),Handwork & Stiching,Type,Super ...
f,Brand,Rating,Construction,Cloth,Cut or Fit (MTM),Styling & Details,RRP,Lowest Avg Sale Price ,Avg 'Ebay' Price ,RRP,Lowest Avg Sale Price ,Avg 'Ebay' Price ,Garments manufactured by (historical and present)
Canvas,Lining Material (rayon or poly? etc),Handwork & Stiching,Type,Super ...
W- you could have a look at crowley's vintage, gentlemens resale, fine and dandy's vintage tailoring... maybe message or call all of em first to see if they have something in your size range before you go
G- Yes, resale value for tuxes is poor, just like most tailoring. A $2000 MSRP tux in great condition can regularly be found for well under $500 (more like under $200.) Unlike most suits, when people say "worn twice" for a tux, they're more likely to be telling the truth!
- Yes of course. $200 into a tux, $100 into tailoring, will beat almost anything at new prices and at a modest price point.
- Many. Vintage tuxes come with labels you've never heard of or no label at all. I wouldn't look for any specific label at all; I'd look for all tuxes within your size and meeting your requirements.
This is my written guide: https://gimp.substack.com/p/formality-level-black-tie
Most full tuxes, or separate trousers and jackets, had the following issues:
- Not my size / my size but not my measurements: duh.
- Would fit but cut to need excessive tailoring (ie, cut for a much rounder man than I am): not worth it.
- Incorrect details: myriad. Like, so, so many. Trousers with back pockets, slanted front pockets, skinny fit, etc. Belt loops and side adjusters are fixable (remove them). The real one was jackets. Double vented (fixable), single vent (usually not fixable), high button stance (especially with two-button closure), slim fit, piping on lapels instead of facing, notch lapels (not my favorite), etc.
GMy cost breakdown was roughly as follows:
Oxxford trousers: $71 + $7 taxes + $80 tailoring (big re-cut, which I didn't really expect, but rolled with)
Canali 2x1 DB jacket: $61 plus $10 shipping plus $6 taxes + $60 tailoring (take in at back seams, mostly)
Brooks Brothers Peale&Co (unsure of Alfred Sargent or Crocket & Jones make) patent shoes: $86 + $9 taxes
Polo Ralph Lauren cummerbund: $34 + $3 taxes
This used section adds up to $252 primary cost, plus ~$25 CA taxes and $10 shipping, plus $140 tailoring, for a total of $417.
New:
Spoon formal shirt: $130 (prices are now $150)
Kent Wang bowtie: $45
Kent Wang cufflinks: $55
Kent Wang studs: $75
Kent Wang pocket square: $20
Plus taxes and shipping as appropriate. That's about $325 of new stuff plus $32 taxes plus shipping was $7. That adds up to $364 for the new, non-thrifted portion.
Of course, secondhand studs and cufflinks can be had way cheaper (and in fact Kent Wang sells links that are $25). Bowties may be found cheaper, though many are not proper self-tie but are clip-on or pre-tied. So you can save money there. A second-hand formal shirt might be hard to find and fit, or it might not, but if you do find one you can probably expect to pay ... eh, $20-50.
Anyways, it cost me a total of $417 + $364 = $781 for a full black tie rig while buying the primary components second-hand. And it took almost a year of watching ebay and bidding on stuff occasionally.
If I were to minimize expense further, I would probably have found a formal shirt for like $30 and tailored it for another $30-50, saving ~$50. (Not worth it IMO versus what I got instead.) I could have gotten vintage links and studs and saved $100. Could probably have saved another $20-30 between the bowtie and square. So I could have knocked the price down another almost $200 with all-secondhand.
Oxxford trousers: $71 + $7 taxes + $80 tailoring (big re-cut, which I didn't really expect, but rolled with)
Canali 2x1 DB jacket: $61 plus $10 shipping plus $6 taxes + $60 tailoring (take in at back seams, mostly)
Brooks Brothers Peale&Co (unsure of Alfred Sargent or Crocket & Jones make) patent shoes: $86 + $9 taxes
Polo Ralph Lauren cummerbund: $34 + $3 taxes
This used section adds up to $252 primary cost, plus ~$25 CA taxes and $10 shipping, plus $140 tailoring, for a total of $417.
New:
Spoon formal shirt: $130 (prices are now $150)
Kent Wang bowtie: $45
Kent Wang cufflinks: $55
Kent Wang studs: $75
Kent Wang pocket square: $20
Plus taxes and shipping as appropriate. That's about $325 of new stuff plus $32 taxes plus shipping was $7. That adds up to $364 for the new, non-thrifted portion.
Of course, secondhand studs and cufflinks can be had way cheaper (and in fact Kent Wang sells links that are $25). Bowties may be found cheaper, though many are not proper self-tie but are clip-on or pre-tied. So you can save money there. A second-hand formal shirt might be hard to find and fit, or it might not, but if you do find one you can probably expect to pay ... eh, $20-50.
Anyways, it cost me a total of $417 + $364 = $781 for a full black tie rig while buying the primary components second-hand. And it took almost a year of watching ebay and bidding on stuff occasionally.
If I were to minimize expense further, I would probably have found a formal shirt for like $30 and tailored it for another $30-50, saving ~$50. (Not worth it IMO versus what I got instead.) I could have gotten vintage links and studs and saved $100. Could probably have saved another $20-30 between the bowtie and square. So I could have knocked the price down another almost $200 with all-secondhand.
GOn the flip side, if I bought everything new, instead of spending ~$417 on second-hand stuff and tailoring, it would look more like:
Shoes: $100+ if patent, $200+ for calf. Note: patent shoes are worn so rarely, and they want to be sleek, so you're often better off getting a relatively cheap pair, blake stitched or cemented sole rather than GYW, because re-soles are not really relevant and GYW soles are chunkier.
Tux: $500 or so from S&M. Much more elsewhere. Plus $100 tailoring.
Cummerbund: $95 Kent Wang.
Total: $100 + 500 + 95 + taxes and shipping ~ $800, plus $100 tailoring ~ $900. More than double the price. -- Add to that that S&M offers the absolute cheapest tux (at full MSRP) that I would want to wear ... and that one is still not exactly my speed. To get all the details I want I would have to spend 3-5x as much.
So yes, big cost savings going second-hand, but you trade a lot of time for it.
On the plus side, this time is not just "time for money" but you invest time into learning exactly what you want and making very specific decisions, which is nice.
Shoes: $100+ if patent, $200+ for calf. Note: patent shoes are worn so rarely, and they want to be sleek, so you're often better off getting a relatively cheap pair, blake stitched or cemented sole rather than GYW, because re-soles are not really relevant and GYW soles are chunkier.
Tux: $500 or so from S&M. Much more elsewhere. Plus $100 tailoring.
Cummerbund: $95 Kent Wang.
Total: $100 + 500 + 95 + taxes and shipping ~ $800, plus $100 tailoring ~ $900. More than double the price. -- Add to that that S&M offers the absolute cheapest tux (at full MSRP) that I would want to wear ... and that one is still not exactly my speed. To get all the details I want I would have to spend 3-5x as much.
So yes, big cost savings going second-hand, but you trade a lot of time for it.
On the plus side, this time is not just "time for money" but you invest time into learning exactly what you want and making very specific decisions, which is nice.
GFollow up question. What time of day is your ceremony and reception, in what month?
GMkay. All I will say is this: A dinner suit is eveningwear. General rule of thumb is after dark, or after 6, whichever comes first. It gets dark a lot earlier in November. Nobody is gonna find it weird to wear it at 4pm when it gets dark at 5. But if you want a morning wedding... eveningwear is, traditionally, not it. :)
GHmm. I rarely see pleated fly front in photos. Usually fly front and plain bib.
GIf you can't find one, consider an alternate combo or get one made.
GThat is odd. Barrel cuffs don't work for black tie. Convertible cuffs can but not my favorite. Gauntlet cuffs if you're making shirt #10 maybe. Single cuffs if you're doing a throwback to black tie origins, or you otherwise are bored with normal options. French / double cuffs for all normal setups.
GPity
GYeah so you measure the shoulder seams in a straight line across. Most people measure across the front but some across the back. The two measurements are generally quite similar. For me for example perfect fit is 16-16.5" for a slimmer cut.
GYou can always tuck flaps in. You can have flaps removed to end up with jetted pockets. For the principle of lowest risk I would tuck and assess. If tucked in is good enough, two sewed stitches to close the pocket will do the job.
GThe only "maybe" is that most black/midnight dinner jackets have silk facing over the jetted pocket bits, this strategy probably wouldn't. You don't need to do it. You could also get em faced, only difficult if the lapel silk is an unusual grosgrain or otherwise hard to match (and you want to match it - which is also optional ish)
GTldr flapped pockets on a dinner jacket should be fixable.
CA better question is do you like them? If you don't move on.
CYou don't need to settle if you've still got a year...
CMost things are achievable (at escalating cost) by a skilled tailor, but given the low price and high turnover on the second hand market are questionably "worth it" if you have time to spend waiting for something closer to what you really want.
CWith respect to this jacket, I don't think you'd have to wait that long for similar lapels with different cuffs. Especially as the pocket thing is pretty solvable (I tuck nearly all my flap pockets as I just prefer jetted).
GCuffed sleeves are okay on dinner jackets but ...... unusual on most. On black or midnight I'm not sure I've seen it? I've definitely seen it on blackwatch tartan jackets (black silk cuffs), and also smoking jackets (often black silk cuffs there too.) For ivory, same thing, unsure if I've seen it. I don't think it's verboten but I probably wouldn't do it on any of the three standard three colors.
G(Cuffed trousers = no)
GI guess with that link I've now seen it. If I bought this jacket I would just rock the cuffed sleeves and call it good.
GThe problem with fixing it is there's a chance that there's no normal shell underneath the cuff. If there is, it should be fine. Assuming your sleeve length matches properly.
GBut nothing wrong with rocking it, so, yeah that's my advice
GGreat! Hope it fits well. The photography is kind of meh, but most stuff looks way better in real life than photographed. Don't be shy to have it tailored.
GThrow on some proper trousers, the closest fit to formal trousers if you don't have formal trousers. Let's see the length properly. Also get photos from sides and back, without you holding up the camera, which distorts the standard pose. Otherwise: You're definitely going to want to fix the sleeve length, but shoulder width I could live with. I mean, if your shoulders end at where I see a bump, then it's quite the extended shoulder but to an outside observer from the front it seems okay. Especially in poor light, especially for 20 bucks. I'd probably consider this good enough to rock for now, and depending on the fit, you could tailor it a bit more to make you happier or just take the learning for the next one.
GYeah it's a common issue. Generally I'd say it means that the shoulder or shoulder+chest fit is wrong for you. Just a matter of how it's cut not fitting your body. Happens. Get the sleeves altered if possible then touch nothing else; use lessons for your next dinner suit / dinner jacket.
