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CBR vs CQP for "Streaming", which is better? (Why not CQP?)

Hello Everyone, I've been trying to find a technical answer to why it is often not advised to use CQP for streaming? In theory if there are no issues it would result in a better and consistent quality right? Thanks for any and all help!
Fcenturylink
Fcenturylink•16d ago
A)obs is hard-coded to not use cqp. You can set it but it'll silently use CBR B)stream services expect a somewhat consistent data rate C)cqp will usually be way more data rate than what a stream service will ingest
MarkusGGEZ
MarkusGGEZ•16d ago
A) You can use the "ignore streaming service setting recommendations" feature to resolve it hard coding back to CBR iirc? B) True per their recommendations. But what if the stream is on Youtube where they have less limitations? C) A friend of mine has a recent livestream using CQP @ 4k 60FPS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9srUT2vSlQ&t=10502s) and while he did get OBS messages like "you're not streaming enough bitrate, you should stream more than 3.5k" the stream as seen in the VOD looks good! But this is all void if "ignore streaming service setting recommendations" does not remove the hard coded CBR
gregandcin
gregandcin•16d ago
Just use CBR when streaming. Less problems
MarkusGGEZ
MarkusGGEZ•16d ago
I do use CBR when streaming no worries! I am just looking for a legitimate and technical answer as to why not CQP? and now looking to confirm if "ignore streaming service setting recommendations" allows CQP without it hardcoding back to CBR?
Technically Alex
Technically Alex•16d ago
Because there’s no practical benefit to having a variable bitrate when you’re already constrained to a sub optimal bitrate per twitch’s limit In those scenarios CQP wouldn’t really have enough bitrate headroom to improve quality And would lead to massive drops and spikes in bitrate, which is harder to ingest
MarkusGGEZ
MarkusGGEZ•16d ago
Hey Alex! I am more so referring to Youtube where the bitrate has more headroom, apologies.
Fcenturylink
Fcenturylink•16d ago
Obs is hard coded to use cbr for streams Regardless of the "ignore stream service" box
MarkusGGEZ
MarkusGGEZ•16d ago
Yes but per this forum https://obsproject.com/forum/threads/i-set-stream-encoder-to-use-cqp-but-it-seems-to-still-be-streaming-with-cbr.174294/ "ignore streaming service setting recommendations" allows CQP without it hardcoding back to CBR?
Fcenturylink
Fcenturylink•16d ago
Because obs is hard coded to use cbr Trust me
MarkusGGEZ
MarkusGGEZ•16d ago
Ahh okay. Thats what I needed to know.
Fcenturylink
Fcenturylink•16d ago
Bet if ya pulled up the obs log from the session where they "used cqp" it'll still say cbr as the rate control 😉
MarkusGGEZ
MarkusGGEZ•16d ago
Thanks for the info! I really do appreciate it 🙏
Technically Alex
Technically Alex•16d ago
Any time you have a bitrate ceiling cqp is a bad application because it assumes you basically don’t The quality value does limit bits per frame But again, you’d have to really know ffmpeg well to know X value = Y bitrate limit
MarkusGGEZ
MarkusGGEZ•16d ago
That was my assumption aswell, but since a friend has been using it to success I quiestioned what I've researched and wanted to get a more technical answer. But if OBS hard codes it then everything is void anyhow Thank you all for the help!
Fcenturylink
Fcenturylink•16d ago
It'll silently use the last bitrate they set when using cbr So if they are noticing "better quality" it's purely placebo 😉
MarkusGGEZ
MarkusGGEZ•16d ago
Ahh and since the default is 2500 CBR that would explain the message he receiving being "you're not streaming enough bitrate, you should stream more than 3.5k" The quality I assume is likely heavily contributed to it being "low action" and using AV1 on Youtubes VP9
Technically Alex
Technically Alex•16d ago
StriderStone
StriderStone•16d ago
I would have never thought that 2500 would be able to do this: https://www.youtube.com/live/r4TjPy3WfwY?si=gijXWO7UA5W6R3dA&t=20087 even with AV1 4k 60 FPS at 2500 bitrate seems REALLY LOW to the point that I wouldn't even think it would work. I only watch the recorded vods though 
10:01:15.723: [obs-nvenc: 'advanced_video_stream'] settings:
10:01:15.723:     codec:        AV1
10:01:15.723:     rate_control: CBR
10:01:15.723:     bitrate:      2500
10:01:15.723:     cqp:          20
10:01:15.723:     keyint:       120
10:01:15.723:     preset:       p4
10:01:15.723:     tuning:       hq
10:01:15.723:     multipass:    qres
10:01:15.723:     profile:      main
10:01:15.723:     width:        3840
10:01:15.723:     height:       2160
10:01:15.723:     b-frames:     2
10:01:15.723:     lookahead:    false
10:01:15.723:     psycho_aq:    true
10:01:15.723: [obs-nvenc: 'advanced_video_stream'] settings:
10:01:15.723:     codec:        AV1
10:01:15.723:     rate_control: CBR
10:01:15.723:     bitrate:      2500
10:01:15.723:     cqp:          20
10:01:15.723:     keyint:       120
10:01:15.723:     preset:       p4
10:01:15.723:     tuning:       hq
10:01:15.723:     multipass:    qres
10:01:15.723:     profile:      main
10:01:15.723:     width:        3840
10:01:15.723:     height:       2160
10:01:15.723:     b-frames:     2
10:01:15.723:     lookahead:    false
10:01:15.723:     psycho_aq:    true
So: - Change my setting to CBR - Crank the bitrate to 40000? - Change preset to p1?
Fcenturylink
Fcenturylink•16d ago
If that link above was done at 2500kbps, yea, I'd say av1 is pretty impressive And if you have the upload to support 40,000 full send that shit ha
StriderStone
StriderStone•15d ago
that's what the settings were according to the logs. I had it set to CQP 20 though in the OBS UI.
MEE6
MEE6•15d ago
GG @StriderStone, you just advanced to level 4 !
StriderStone
StriderStone•15d ago
that just can't be right...0 dropped frames or anything

2024-04-27_09-10-39....

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