<@UJ6JPAJQ4> just a
[2022-11-01 12:40:01 AM] : Chris Drit just a few points that I haven't seen mentioned:
1. Calling them out on public could also backfire. Depending on how you frame it you might come off as vengeful (not sure if that's the right word in English but I hope you get what I mean)
2. You can take inspiration by their copy and improve your design or whatever they've done better. Basically copying the copycat
3. Can you tell if they see results? Can you learn something from that? Like do they use some kind of marketing tactic that you could also try out?
4. Are there simple ways you can improve your tool? Just to make it better than theirs.
All in all I agree with the others. Copycats tend to disappear. It's unfortunate obviously if their tool stays online anyways and takes part of your traffic. Maybe wait a bit, see what happens, and if they disappear you can ask them to redirect to your tool. That would be an advantage of not burning bridges obviously
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[2022-11-01 01:02:16 AM] : Thanks Johannes.
The backfire fear is my biggest concern (vengeful: correct usage of the word :raised_hands:).
But I’m so frickin confident in everything I’ve done backed up by many years of eBombing, helping people, sending weekly emails, participating in watering holes, etc… I have a massive track record, they don’t. So the more I’ve thought about it, the less fear I have on publicly calling them out TBH.
Inspiration wise, yes. What they do better is design. They have better design chops than me without a doubt.
Copying the copycat is great, I hadn’t thought about that. The only thing I could do is copy their design which would be an improvement (as well as one more point listed below).
As an aside, they do fall short in many other areas. Most notably everything I’ve been doing from 30x500 they have none of. Huge advantage on my end, and I’m feeling it (and seeing it).
In regards to results… They just launched this so they don’t have any results to speak of. Also, nobody’s really heard of these guys (new design agency) before, at least from my audience who’s reached out to me.
But there are learnings, though I’m not sure if I would use them.
They are engaging an audience I am (mainly) not. That audience is Twitter vs. more traditional watering holes like forums.
I haven’t really done anything on Twitter until just recently.
In my world, there seems to be an audience who goes to forums (etc..) and an audience who goes to Twitter (podcasts, etc…). Not a huge overlap from what I’ve observed so far. My thinking is Twitter is a new-ish source for me.
They are engaging “influencers” on Twitter and getting them to re-tweet which garners a bunch of attention. I noticed they just popped up co-hosting a podcast episode. Does that turn into something beneficial for them? I’m not sure. But those are things I have most certainly not been doing.
I don’t think these guys will disappear. I’ve seen that before, and this differs.
Planting a
flag in the ground and announcing who I am to a new-ish audience backed up by years worth of demonstrable help, by calling them out… doesn’t sound like a bad thing to me, now.
[2022-11-01 04:40:53 AM] : A Twitter convo between Wes and Ahmad comes to mind. Wes blamed Ahmad for copying his marketing tactics for a new course (and if you look at Ahmad’s site the design also copies Wes’ work) while Ahmad insisted he didn’t do anything wrong. I remember reading that and thinking: wow, this is a new side I haven’t seen from Wes before (he’s known as a nice guy).
Anyway, perhaps being a neutral observer to other people’s fights will help you make a decision https://twitter.com/wesbos/status/975754462039019521
[2022-11-01 05:03:18 AM] : That's interesting, thanks. Do you know what the outcome was? Did Wes create the same titled course and dominate? Did Ahmad go on to do good sales of his? It almost looks like they knew each other before all of that…
[2022-11-01 09:17:09 AM] : Wes ended up creating a different course. Ahmad has been successful afaik but didn’t get enough sales to be able to do this full time. He now works in developer relations while Wes has been a full-time product creator for years. Ahmad says:
This was not a side project, I pursued it full time for about 1.5 years and lots of no weekends after that. After expenses, still haven’t been able to teach full timeHe claims 30k people have taken the course:
I have given away thousands of free subscriptions to students and devs from countries like Nigeria, and to people who lost their jobs. Not all of them are sales but the total number of devs who took the courseSource: https://twitter.com/MrAhmadAwais/status/1297586873221681152?s=20&t=jbODC2Pw-quWJpB1ZPH6aQ [2022-11-01 09:26:12 AM] : Perhaps look at it this way. Others may be able to copy your product, but they’ll never get the insights you have gained through years of safari, ebombing and interacting with your audience. They’ll always play catch up. [2022-11-01 10:55:05 AM] : > But I’m so frickin confident in everything I’ve done backed up by many years of eBombing, helping people, sending weekly emails, participating in watering holes, etc… I have a massive track record, they don’t. So the more I’ve thought about it, the less fear I have on publicly calling them out TBH. This, to me, seems like more of a reason to avoid calling them out - that it would “spend” some of that social capital you’ve built. I get the sense that there’s value in being an indie developer behind a tool, versus a company/design agency… that people are a bit more likely to feel good about the thing and to share it if it’s made by a person rather than a company. +1 Maxim, that reminds me of this exchange between Marie and Michele when someone had completely copied Marie’s product https://twitter.com/mjwhansen/status/1562691010538311680 [2022-11-01 12:01:38 PM] : I just read that thread/exchange between Wes and Ahmed and...it is not a good look on Wes. Michele's notes are spot on, top to bottom, especially her point about it being a compliment. that reframe goes a LONG way. think about how awesome it is that you made something that someone else thinks is worth copying. most people create stuff nobody notices. you made something good enough for someone to spend their time copying! [2022-11-01 05:52:52 PM] : sigh… good links, thoughts, and perspectives. as always, beyond helpful - from everyone. I’m always learning here, never seems to stop. [2022-11-02 11:50:32 AM] : Chris Drit invite them on your podcast! What I'm getting at is what have you actually lost? And what could you gain? If you can have a positive public discussion where they basically say they were inspired by your work you are up. My thought would be to get them to talk you through their design thoughts so you, and your audience, can learn a bit about how and why they approached things the way they did. You could suggest you are looking to improve your own tool from a design point of view and would be keen to get their steer on how they tackled some of the specific challenges you've faced. All of that is dealing publically with the issue in a positive way that will also benefit your audience. It will be obvious to anyone what is really going on and, without you saying anything, you get to highlight the situation in a context that is still focused on you and your audience learning. Re the podcast, I literally invited everyone who has flamed any of the stuff I've written online onto the podcast. If they come on they realise I'm just a human and learning too. So far I've had some great conversations - even post show - and turned a hostile into a friend. Kill 'em with kindness. #keeptruckin [2022-11-02 03:43:21 PM] : That's a great approach Samir lots to learn from that :raised_hands: [2022-11-02 09:03:59 PM] : I read a tweet a while back that was basically saying: Just keep doing you - it comes naturally, and feels like play. Playing for 16 hours a day isn't particularly soul-draining. Your competitors seeking to copy you aren't playing, they're working, and are likely to give up when their short-term idea to copy you gets old.