Differences between browsers
everyone!
I've been building a website for someone. It's pretty simple. He just wants to display some of the art he made, so I made a version of an earlier website that he showed me. Just a home page with small version of all the art he made and then a css and js carousel to show the bigger versions.
All seemed simple enough, but it's been dragging on an on. A big part of it was that I wasn't getting clear instructions about screen size and he was constantly contradicting himself. But he'd also send me some pictures like the one I've added where in his browser everything would be funky. And if I go through all the different browsers and devices I have, it would look perfectly fine.
Here's the link to the website (just free hosting for now so he can see what I did). https://jaapfaber.netlify.app/
I'm not entirely sure what's going on. There's definitely been a lot of issues with communication and the fact that I'm being woefully underpaid is not helping my motivation to work on it. But anyone here who can help explain the differences? Or what I should do to fix this?
It is my first 'client' ever that I'm building a website for and it's definitely not helping my confidence or making this an enjoyable endeavor.
Thanks in advance!
Crispy
29 Replies
If you’re being underpaid they’re not a client, they’re taking advantage of you. They’re expecting more work from you than you were expecting.
Do you have a contract? If not just pull the plug. Honestly it’s not worth it
I wasn't getting clear instructions about screen sizeThat should be a non-issue. You set up the content to flow appropriately and the screen size will take care of itself.
he was constantly contradicting himself.That usually means he either doesn't know what he wants or he's listening to too many influencers and is unable to make his own decision.
he'd also send me some pictures like the one I've added where in his browser everything would be funky.Without being able to open the console it's impossible to say, but it looks like he's having internet issues and the CSS and images aren't loading properly. Or it could be a cache issue b/c I'm not seeing a hamburger menu on the page no matter what size I make the viewport.
It's a friend of my family so I'd rather resolve the issue than pulling the plug, though you're probably right in regards to the amount of money vs the amount of work
About the screen size: he'd tell me to make everything fit properly on big screens, which means it was being scaled for smaller sizes. After I did that he would then send me new instructions after he looked at it on his iPad or other device. Sometimes he'd want stuff to overflow, sometimes he'd want it to scale. So the screen size as a reference for the 'appropriate' scale would constantly change
About the hamburger menu, I've removed it as I've been working on it a bit and he wanted the menu to be always open in the end (after changing his mind multiple times)
You're the professional, not him. Don't ask him about overflow or scale. That's your job. You make the decisions based on the content being displayed. You tell him how it is. If he pushes back, you tell him why you did it. If he still argues, you tell him "you asked me to do this because it's what I do. If you want to do it yourself go ahead." It'd be like barging into the kitchen at a restuarant and demanding that the chef cook things how you want it done.
Also, do you have a contract? If not, stop everything you're doing and get one. And get it yesterday. Don't do any more work without one. It's the most important part of the whole design process. It lays out clear expectations on all parties. If it's not in the contract then it doesn't get done. And a scope-of-work.
The contract tells exactly who's repsonsible for what. He gets you content. You put it up. You show the design and he has X rounds of feedback/changes. It says how much is owed when (ALWAYS GET 50% UP FRONT NON-REFUNDABLE) and the fact that no deliverable is due until the final payment is made. If they're not willing to sign said contract and follow through than I reiterate: they're not a client but someone taking advantage of you.
A scope of work can be seen as an addendum to the contract: it lists the, well, scope of your work. The deliverables and timeline. How many pages, and what each is—and what content is on each page. This is the document you consult when you're making things for him. If it's not in the SoW you don't do it. If he wants to add to the SoW, you need to amend the contract terms to account for the additional work being done.
Again, the contract and scope of work are there not to screw over one party or the other. It's to make sure each party knows exactly what is expected of them. It sets clear and concise expectations. They server as a touchstone when uncertain. It protects each party.
I may sound flippant, but I've seen too many people get burned by "it's just family/a friend so it's ok" and either ruin them (their physical/mental wellbeing) or the relationship. For some reason people think that they can interject their opinions on web design—and other creative endevours—but balk when someone tries to do the same thing to them in their area of expertise. It's unjust and annoying AF.
Most of the time the best answer to, "hey [family member], I have a friend who needs a website. Can you do it?" Is, "I know just the person, sure!" and hand it off to someone who will be, unfortuantely, more respected than "oh, it's just Martha's kid. Not a real professional."
I think you're fully right. And I've definitely learned my lesson during this process
But it still leaves the question why everything is always displaying differently on his computer/device...
Without being able to poke around the console is going to be near impossible to tell.
But the two things that jump out as possible are:
1. Poor Internet connection and thus not all resources are loading
1. He’s using an older version of Safari that doesn’t support all the stuff you’re doing
a point about safari, until less than 2 years ago, safari didnt had support for the <dialog> element, while chrome has had it since 2012 or 2014
about the contract, i agree to get 50% upfront non-refundable, if you don't mind him getting angry
a more friendly way is the milestone approach
you work until a point, you get a portion of the money
you also MUST specify that you own the code and any deliverables until full payment
and limit to 0 changes, at a price that you are comfy with per hour
but yeah, you need a contract
also, if he says "but this is not hard work" "just press some keys or use ai and it's done", i would consider an asshole tax (if you are okay with some conflict)
Well, the problems have been explained. After asking him on multiple occasions whether everything he uses is the current version, he finally sent me the version number. Safari was around 5 versions behind and I think his chromium version was around 30 versions behind. I've put soooo much effort into making everything as simple and backward compatible as possible. But this stuff was over 5 years old
Thanks for your support in helping me make a stand
that is ... yikes!!!!
he is a walking security hole
I know it's also my responsibility to make sure that everyone is on the same page, but I did ask him a few times!
no no, your responsibility is to do stuff for the supported versions of the software
and chrome, 30 or so versions ago, had multiple zero-day remote code execution exploits being actively used
you should not support those versions at all, they should never be used by anyone
now, 5 versions ago in safari ... that is a tought pill, as i think there is supported hardware that was released for those versions
Thanks!
Wowzers, that's…that's something that's what that is…
Might be a good time to discuss how far back you're willing to support. The farther back, the more it'll cost. For most use cases, 2–3 years old support is more than good enough, especially with browsers that auto-update. Really the only time when you should have to go farther back is corporate settings that are locked to a specific browser release. Or if you're targeting a niche community known to use a specific browser.
But yeah, 6-year old Safari is oof. Chrome 107 is only 2.5 years old, though, so that's not as bad.
that 2.5 years old version of chrome has multiple rce vulnerabilities that are/were being actively exploited
nobody should be using those
I'm not saying they should be used, I'm saying a 2.5yo browser should still be able to handle most of today's FE tech
yeah
Update your shit as frequently as you can
but providing support for those is kinda a waste of time, unless it is a consequence of providing a fallback for safari or firefox
At this point it's a user error to not be on—at the least—two minor versions old browsers
today, 0 versions old, as a new rce came out
but i agree
chrome self updates and everything
I think it's just an old machine with old browsers. It's on high sierra that has updated safari for the last time in 2020. I'm not sure how this should work with backwards compatibility for other browser, but after months of him laying the blame with me for not making it work on his machine, I think this is an issue that should be solved first
Aside from him being an a-hole for laying the blame with me this whole time and playing into my insecurities
it is an old machine
high sierra
isnt that from when the m1 came out?
No, it's pre-M1
yikes!
is the hardware still supported then?
According to Wikipeida the last update to High Sierra was in 2020
(came out in 2017)
safari has been lacking lots of features for a ton of time now, so, i can't see it being feasible to do anything semi-decent with that old version
if you have a mac, maybe you can run the same-ish software on a vm - this should be perfectly legal since you are running the vm on mac hardware
Maybe, but he's gonna have to pay me first. I've been chasing my tail for weeks and months trying to solve issues with my css, that are caused by his use of an old version of safari. Then we can talk about me doing more work to make it work on safari from 2020
and you havent been paid anything yet?
If you haven't been paid yet send a bill and don't do any more work until it's paid
yeah, you are wasting time working for free, specially when you have to support an old ass os with extremely insecure and outdated browsers