^ this Idk for sure but I think DCS itself handles spring and damper if there's no special FFB impl

^ this

Idk for sure but I think DCS itself handles spring and damper if there's no special FFB implementation in the module. I should try the Harrier again...
For other software (like MSFS because it doesn't support FFB (yet

) and in my opinion XPForce is really not good in MSFS) you can set the stock parameters in the Rhino Software like spring, damper, friction, ...

Cpt_Adhesive•9/5/22, 3:48 PM

that itself already sounds so much better than having a regular spring base...dampers

AndyHill•9/5/22, 3:52 PM

Ideally (I don't own the Rhino so can't tell from experience) you can use an FFB stick just like a regular stick with incredible amount of adjustability

AndyHill•9/5/22, 3:53 PM

Or you can use it to replicate the specific feel of any given stick, for example different amount of travel or resistance on elevator / aileron, different kinds of centering feels etc.

AndyHill•9/5/22, 3:54 PM

It's of course entirely up to the stick and its software just how well that's going to work and like I said I don't have the Rhino so I just don't know

skeletonOP•9/5/22, 3:59 PM

The customisation options for the Rhino are already very good so your assumptions are correct

Pfhoenix•9/5/22, 4:22 PM

the closer I get to being able to start building my simpit, the more desperately I want my turn in the preorder to come

Sskeleton ^ this Idk for sure but I think DCS itself handles spring and damper if there's...

aerotorc•9/6/22, 12:23 AM

Harrier at the moment doesn't support the stick "center" moving under trim, we've raised this on the ED forum and no word from the developer about fixing it. Many other modules, such as the F-5E and F-14, do support this, however.

Vulcan•9/6/22, 12:02 PM

Does the rhino software always run in the background? Is it hooked into export lua? If so, the rhino software could detect that you're flying a module that does not support changing stick center based on trim, and when you push the trim hat it could trim the stick at the hardware level?

Frenchy•9/6/22, 12:45 PM

It doesn't need to run in the background. You set it up and once you've got it the way you want it doesn't need to run. Nothing to do with the exports either afaik

Frenchy•9/6/22, 12:45 PM

Hardware trim is planned out might even already be out, I haven't installed the latest update yet

Vulcan•9/6/22, 2:31 PM

Yeah that would work fine, I guess I was referring to it from the perspective of being in VR and flying the F14, then switching to a different jet that did not support the center moving under trim without having to get back into the software and turn off that hardware trim, potentially restarting the sim? I assume having hardware trim turned on and then jumping into a jet that supports centering trim would conflict in some manner?

VVulcan Yeah that would work fine, I guess I was referring to it from the perspective of...

Mike (Mugs)•9/6/22, 3:20 PM

DCS dictates the effect, so I can Fly in VR with F18 and the stick does not move on trim, then jump right into the F5 which does.

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:21 PM

more specifically, the individual airframe module has to have that implemented

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:21 PM

DCS provides the framework/API for the module designers

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:21 PM

the module designers have to take advantage of it

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:26 PM

it's a real shame that module designers aren't required by ED to implement FFB effects

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:26 PM

you'd think they would benefit from helping ensure a more consistent experience across the modules they sell

PPfhoenix you'd think they would benefit from helping ensure a more consistent experience ...

Mike (Mugs)•9/6/22, 3:27 PM

am guessing FFB is 0.001% of users

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:29 PM

I dunno, I think it might be much higher, something around 10% of users even

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:29 PM

keep in mind flight sims are a niche hobby still, compared to the rest of gaming

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:29 PM

and people get very passionate about it

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:32 PM

Frankly I'm surprised at just how much ffb support there is considering how little high-end ffb sticks there have been around

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:32 PM

that just might be changing now, though

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:34 PM

I definitely want to see the Rhino become widely used

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:34 PM

it deserves to become the new FFB benchmark

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:36 PM

I think there are a lot of people who have wanted to combine the best possible grips (I love the mcgu) with FFB who haven't been happy with either the pricing and/or features of the existing solutions

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:36 PM

if Rhino can hit that market things might go wild indeed

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:36 PM

yep, Brunner is going to regret keeping their offerings at the "luxury item" pricing range

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:37 PM

the best way to make more money is to get more people buying your product

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:38 PM

Maybe there should be a patreon or kickstarter so that people can donate money for a Rhino to be sent to Eagle

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:39 PM

I wouldn't mind getting bumped up on the list so that ED can get one asap

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:40 PM

ED doesn't need one, as DCS already fully supports FFB

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:41 PM

it's the module designers that need to want to implement FFB for their airframes

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:41 PM

what might get ED's attention is a nice chart showing the percentage of FFB users over time

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:41 PM

maybe they don't need one, but if they liked it and made it a part of their testing the module developers might get kicked around a bit until they get their ffb implementation sorted

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:41 PM

it'd key them into how much the market wants more reasons to have FFB

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:42 PM

right now charts are very much limited by how much walmis can pump out stuff

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:42 PM

I meant for the community at large, not just people looking at getting a Rhino

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:43 PM

like with trackir a long time ago, if the developers experience it and see the utility they will be inclined to support it even if it's not very popular tech quite yet

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:43 PM

price is the #1 reason why more people don't have FFB devices

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:43 PM

there is definitely some amount of chicken and egg going on here

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:43 PM

it's very, very common to read/hear people say "sure would be nice to have FFB, but I can't afford X or Y"

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:44 PM

Well the Rhino is not exactly cheap, but it's in a kind of interesting price range

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:44 PM

people even buy small transducers and attach them to their joystick/cyclic base/frame

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:44 PM

definitely not cheap, but absolutely in the higher end instead of luxury end

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:44 PM

the community has much higher tolerance for "expensive but great"

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:45 PM

Brunner is in the "jesus christ how much?" range

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:45 PM

People seem to already be willing to shell out about 600€ for a high end stick and if you already have the grip anyway, Rhino is not that much more expensive

Pfhoenix•9/6/22, 3:45 PM

and given what I've heard of their overall build quality, I've long wondered how they're still in business

AndyHill•9/6/22, 3:46 PM

I've read that they had they have issues with overheating, but can't say much about that since I've never tested one

^ this Idk for sure but I think DCS itself handles spring and damper if there's no special FFB impl

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