Rat Rig Community [Unofficial]•2y ago

Third Part Cooing Fan

What am I doing wrong here? This is my third fan. First one from ratrig I had positive and negative wire backwards so it ran for a while then burned out. Second one the wire pins on the fans board broke of. Now I have a third fan it is this model. ARCTIC S4028-15K 40x40x28 mm PC Server Fan. I wired it up fallowing their instructions. I have double and tripple checked it now and it is right. It spun for one second and since then I have not been able to get it to turn. Is there something in the printer configuration file that I need to change?

137 Replies

D_Jespersen (DJ_Designs)•2y ago

https://os.ratrig.com/docs/guides/4028

Connecting a 4028 fan | RatOS

4028 server fans are becoming a popular option for part cooling because of their light weight and great pressure and flow rates. In this guide we'll go over how to connect one and use it for part cooling. 4-pin fans usually aren't used in 3d printers, and many boards only provide 2-pin ports, but fear not! There's always a way.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Hi @d_jespersen I have had that page all week. I see some text in it for the config file but where would it go?

D_Jespersen (DJ_Designs)•2y ago

We’re all your custom code is going

miklschmidt•2y ago

It says so in the guide. In your user overrides section (like everything else).

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

One other thing. The fan I have likes a 25KHZ PWM Signal so where do I modify that in the config file.

miklschmidt•2y ago

That's also in the guide

miklschmidt•2y ago

https://os.ratrig.com/docs/guides/4028/#25khz-pwm-signal

Connecting a 4028 fan | RatOS

miklschmidt•2y ago

For having it open all week you haven't read much of it 😄

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

so it goes in the ### USER OVERRIDES section?

miklschmidt•2y ago

Yes

miklschmidt•2y ago

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Ok I have it in there and a reboot seems to show everything. Still when I run the fan % up the fan does not run yet.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

miklschmidt•2y ago

then either you're not supplying 12V, you have it miswired, or you killed the fan or the pwm pin on the board.

Grimstod•2y ago

Must be getting 12v this fan runs when plugged in.

Grimstod•2y ago

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

How could I check the PWM pin on the board? I suspect though that I killed another fan. This sucks. Third fan. now I have to wait for yet another fan. This build is into its third month now.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Here are wire instructions for the fan that I have. 1 is wired to black wire or the negative terminal. 2 is wired to the red wire or positive terminal. and 4 is connected to the PWM pin like int he ratos instructions.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Is it possible I could just wire up one of my two wire fans just so I could get printing. I have projects to get printed. need

miklschmidt•2y ago

This is correct Yes of course, just follow the regular wiring diagram

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

That is a relief. Perhahps then I have a bad PWM port. I could then maybe use another one?

miklschmidt•2y ago

1 is wired to black wire or the negative terminal. 2 is wired to the red wire or positive terminal.

"Terminal" should be an always on fan port set to 12v or a 12v power supply, sharing gnd with the board. Sure, just look up the pin in your boards pin diagram (if BTT, you can find it on github).

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

github. That place give me chills. It more of a programmers place. I hae yet to even figure out how to download something there. At any rate, I ordered two more fans. For now I am going to plug the fan into an alwasy on port once the first layer is done. Its supper crud but I need to see some prints from this thing.

elco•2y ago

Do you maybe still have a jumper on 24V for the PWM fan port?

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Hi Elco. You know that is actually something that has alwasy puzzled me. The wiring diagram shows it to have to jumpers in place. So that is how I have always set left it. Today I did remove it though for this small 12v constant fan I have on here now.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

If this the reason I have fried three fans perhaps the admins should modify the image to show just one jumper there.

blacksmithforlife•2y ago

The green is where it should go. The image is from btt GitHub. So you should only have 1 jumper there

elco•2y ago

Wait you had all jumpers in place? Most fans have an internal pull-up, so you can leave all jumpers off Ah wait, you mean they didn't Photoshop the existsing jumpers away

miklschmidt•2y ago

With the jumper off there'll be no power. They route the power rails to +

elco•2y ago

The jumper is for the positive terminal, but for pwm you are only using the pull down MOSFET on the negative terminal You do need the jumper on the always on port of course Yeah my message was confusing, I didn't mean all jumpers of all ports Just no jumpers on the pwm port

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Oh none at all? on the PWM? I have one there now. Just like in the image says to have a one in the 24v slot for the PWM. Is this not right?

elco•2y ago

Nooo

blacksmithforlife•2y ago

No it doesn't, the green box is telling you that there should only be a jumper on the 12v

elco•2y ago

That's why you are destroying your fans

blacksmithforlife•2y ago

You are frying your fans because you are giving it 24v instead of 12v

elco•2y ago

The photo shows it in the 5v slot

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

So If I have this strait I have a jumper in the 12v slot for both the PWM slot and the Power slot. Well at least I have this cleared up Now. Hope next fan gets here soon.

elco•2y ago

Try with no jumper on the PWM That's the safest way If the pull-up internal in the fan is not enough, use 5V Is the fan only 0.5A btw? Sounds weak

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Its a 0.8A

blacksmithforlife•2y ago

Sorry I thought you were saying you did 24v for the power delivery. Do as Elco says

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Its cool. We were talking about the hot end fan which is a 24v. Its the oddball in the mix.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

So it should look like this next time I try. But I will start with an empty PWM as elco said.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

I am really excited to get this thing running. I am actually running a part now with a smaller fan. The small fan though does not cool the part enough.

miklschmidt•2y ago

Ah yes i thought we were talking about the circled one No the PWM one needs to be on 5v. Or not on at all. (the not circled jumper) long story short, you just need to follow the diagram from the guide.

flat-fuchsia•2y ago

One more question about fans, I have my hot end cooling fan, two 5015 as part fans, one more 6010, as system controlled fan, I'm using Marlin, at an BTT Octopus, but I need to mount an exhaust fan, I have a new thermistor defined as PCB temperature sensor, and my intention is to make work the exhaust fan depending on the "PCB temperature", but after several days making code changes, I'm not able to do it, at least not yet, any suggestions, comments, ideas?

eastern-cyan•2y ago

hello @miklschmidt I don't quite understand, I have the fan I bought on the Ratrig site that is always on. I have an Octopus 1.1 and I don't understand what to connect to make the fan stop properly I understood that I have to indicate the port of the card to which I have to connect the fan but I can't find this port, well I don't want to crash. Is it the black cable of the fan on the negative pole of a heater plug?

eastern-cyan•2y ago

it's this fan (came with the Ratrig3.1 kit) Protechnic MGT4012WB-W28-C

miklschmidt•2y ago

yes

eastern-cyan•2y ago

Ok thanks 🙂 so the fan has its 3 wires connected to three different places? it's weird 😄

blacksmithforlife•2y ago

please don't hijack someone else's post. Please create a new post with your question

flat-fuchsia•2y ago

The image you shown, shows the place to connect heating cartridges, not the fans Sorry, I was thinking I was doing the right thing

miklschmidt•2y ago

I will add this to the post guidelines oh it already is

blacksmithforlife•2y ago

No worries, that is why I reminded you. Thanks!

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

I figures many will have to get used to this being more like a forum now. Which is a good thing to have a forum. Since you can search for similar discussion better. Here is an update. So my third fan is fried. For now I have a small constant on fan running. Once I get the new fan(s) I will revisit.

Grimstod•2y ago

Not bad. Lot of echos though in Y.

miklschmidt•2y ago

That's what input shaper is for

Grimstod•2y ago

I do have two of them. Cant wait to tackle that one. But at least i am printing 😊

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

New fan is wired up. Its running. I can see now that the other two fans were really running WAY to hard as I had the voltage set wrong with the jumpers. No wonder they burned out.

Grimstod•2y ago

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Now with the PWM wire and terminal I removed all the jumpers. But it is not slowing the fan down after the system is fully booted. Should I put a jumper on its 12v slot? Or start with the 5V?

elco•2y ago

I'm surprised they survived! Do you have the pin inverted in config? https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1049360523650666607/1049728425012756490

Grimstod•2y ago

They did not survive long. First one lasted a few hours. Second one fried in seconds.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Under the ### USER OVERRIDES

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Am I to add this? So the fan does not run all the time?

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

I already have this in there.

elco•2y ago

Just add the enable pin

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

So just copy past this in there? [output_pin 4028_POWER]pin: PA9value: 1shutdown_value: 0 # turn the fan power off on MCU shutdown. Wouldnt I need to rename it at all? This config file thing is not something I am very familiar with.

elco•2y ago

I think enable pin is an alternative for that But I haven't used it myself yet

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Is that this code?

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Now I get an error. pin PD15 used multiple times in config

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

That is what I had. its not working.

miklschmidt•2y ago

PD15 is FAN5, that should not be your enable pin. you're supposed to use a heater port Those fan ports can't handle the currents those 4028's use

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

I heater support is that this curcled in red? Right now I am in this port circled in blue. Like the picture in the instructions.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

I am a little confused though because the heater ports are 24V. At least that is what the board diagram says though. I hate to burn out a fourth fan.

miklschmidt•2y ago

Red, yes. Blue = no go. Yes you can use the blue's for always on, because there's no control pin / mosfet there. If you wanna toggle it, that is, use it as an enable pin (which is what you're doing, you're not using the always on ports), you have to use a heater port. Using a controllable fan port will burn the mosfet. The docs explicitly tell you to use a heater port if you wanna use enable_pin

Grimstod•2y ago

Ok ill feral the wires in the morning. And post a photo of how they are plugged in for verification before i turn it on. I hat to fry another fan.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

What is a mosfet?? I looked this up in the dictionary and it did not have anything.

elco•2y ago

a type of transistor, the 'switch' on the - pin of each fan connector you look things up in a dictionary instead of google? pog

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Generally dictionaries do not change day to day 😉

Grimstod•2y ago

Ok here we go. Is this correct?! This morning i was looking for example photos online and could not find any like this so i am sorta skeptical here.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

No one has commented yet and I am getting cold feet so I went back to this setup for now.

Grimstod•2y ago

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

I used this code [fan]pin: !fan_part_cooling_pincycle_time: 0.01enable_pin: PA int he config file but it gives me this error.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Now this exact wire configeration and printer config file works just fine for another user but is not for me. There must be something I am missing in the config file.

blacksmithforlife•2y ago

you need to look at your board's pinout - obvious PA isn't a valid pin name

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

I think I have it!. So I used port J52 wich is PD12 and the fan shuts down now at 0%. Any other % though its 100% running. I am printing something now to see if it starts the fan at the 3rd layer.

elco•2y ago

Use cycle time 0.0004

Grimstod•2y ago

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Thanks I will try that as soon as this small print is done. I did try to look up this fans schematics to see if it needed 100mhz or 25 and their documentation on it did not have anything. Looks like at least fan delay for the first layer is working now. Next just figure out the RPM and then I can start messing with input shapper. I changed that. Still the fan either is off or on. But at lest this work for printing for now.

elco•2y ago

but you can't print with a 4028 on 100%

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

To much air?

elco•2y ago

yes, too much cooling

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

You are porbbaly right. It does push a lot of air. Even with a fan 1/10th as strong it printed overhangs fine. What do you think I might be missing?

elco•2y ago

I don't want to spend time following wires in your photo and guessing what is what. Please draw a quick schematic instead.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Ok I will in the morning. Clocking out at work now.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Here is my wire setup and the specs of the fan.

elco•2y ago

If it is only 0.73A this is ok

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Cool. Now i have a much faster fan that is 2.1A coming. if I wanted to wire that one up would I need to change anything? I pushes about 50% air as it is 24000rpm. The current fan I have is only 18000 though a lot quieter.

blacksmithforlife•2y ago

look in your manual and see if it can handle 2.1A

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

You mean the Octo 1.1 board? Ill go check that.

elco•2y ago

you need to use the always on fan port for power and GND to a heater port, toggled by enable_pin, like described on the ratos doc page

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Ya but that just leave the fan always on. at least this way it off except after the first 3 layers. You'r not talking about a configuration like this are you? I have not been able to find a single image of a printer wired this way.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

elco•2y ago

No the - is the switched pin. The + is always on

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

That is just a reversal of the red and black wires? Seams incorrect to me.

elco•2y ago

always on fan port provides the 12V, heater port provides GND, PWM signal comes from fan port without jumper it's not that complicated

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Ok I have a second fan now so if I fry this one I at least have backup. Ill probably give this a try tomorrow morning. Forgive me for being second guessing its just that his has been a rocky trip so far. So I have looked and looked for info on this and have not fond anything for the Octopus 1.1

constant-blue•2y ago

The documentation for Octopus does not say that. However, there was a discussion recently. Since the fan port mosfets have no proper heat dissipation, do not load them more than 1A. For your 2.1A fan use the heater port and the PWM signal from any fan port.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Thanks for the reply. With the heater ports being 24v and my fans being 12v am I going to blow anything?

constant-blue•2y ago

Take +12V from the fan 12V rail and put the - onto the heater port.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Are you talking about a jumper?

constant-blue•2y ago

Yes, you would need to put a jumper into 12V position to get +12V on a fan port. Just don't connect the "-" to the fan port cause it is going through a mosfet which is only good up to 1A.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Basically this right here. https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1047192906290696282/1050092526650011740 What i do not understand is that the heater bed ports are all 24v and that would fry my fan as the fan is 12v.

elco•2y ago

that's why you don't take the + from the heater port, like in that photo

constant-blue•2y ago

Just read carefully my last message above.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Ok I have it that way. Now what about the config file? What changes will I need to make there? Here is my wires and locations. PWM is in the - port on the PA8 fan port. The Black - wire I have in the - port on HE3 The + red wire I have in the + port in FAN7 which is a always on port.

constant-blue•2y ago

Sorry, I was away for some time (and leaving again). Here is a part of my config related to my 12V Noctua as a controller fan. The config for your part cooling fan should be very similar, however do some sanity check before running.

[controller_fan controller_fan]
# 4-pin PWM 12V fan
pin: !fan_controller_board_pwm_pin           # PWM control (blue wire)
enable_pin: fan_controller_board_enable_pin  # +12V (red wire)
fan_speed: 0.5

[controller_fan controller_fan]
# 4-pin PWM 12V fan
pin: !fan_controller_board_pwm_pin           # PWM control (blue wire)
enable_pin: fan_controller_board_enable_pin  # +12V (red wire)
fan_speed: 0.5

constant-blue•2y ago

Also here is an example from the RatOS documentation:

[fan]
pin: !fan_part_cooling_pin
cycle_time: 0.01
enable_pin: PA9

[fan]
pin: !fan_part_cooling_pin
cycle_time: 0.01
enable_pin: PA9

https://os.ratrig.com/docs/guides/4028#my-fan-runs-at-100-until-klipper-boots

Connecting a 4028 fan | RatOS

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

I have it plugged in this way now and the machine is on. No fan yet though. I am reading your config for the controller_fan but isnt that just for the fans onthe drivers on the Octopus 1.1?

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Here is how I wired it up.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

That is the config file.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Its giving me this error though.

blacksmithforlife•2y ago

enable_pin should be PB11 shouldn't it?

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Your awesome. That works! Now to do some printing. I am back. The above configeration has been working but the fan velocity could not be controled. The fan was either 100% on or at 0%. This gave me no issues when printing PLA but ASA was a problem.

Grimstod•2y ago

I purchased the same 4028 fan that ratrig sells with the kit.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

It turns off at 0% and it does turn on when prompted by the gcod for whatever I am printing. However it seams to be capped in RPM for some reason. Another words, i can never get it running at greater then 10% capacity. I can barely feel air coming out of the horns. Here is my configuration file.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

printer.cfg

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

I am using this config text. [fan] pin: !PA8 cycle_time: 0.00004 enable_pin: PB11

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

Here is a wiring diagram of how I have it set up.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

I guess this makes for my 5th part cooling fan. 😉 It is the same part cooling fan the kit shipped with and back then I pushed a ton of air. I had the wrong jumper setup to 24V and this fried the first one. I am back to this wiring setup. That last one i posted is just not working. Ratrig should remove it from their website all together.

foreign-sapphire•2y ago

[fan] pin: !PA8 cycle_time: 0.01 enable_pin: PB11 Current cfg file. Same issue as before. All aspects work except that I cannot get more then 5% out of the fan. I can barely feel air even at 100%.

miklschmidt•2y ago

You may have fried your fan port's pwm pin, try another one.

Grimstod•2y ago

Might be right. I know when i remove the PWM wire altogether it runs full blast. I do have a new octo board on the way.

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