43 Replies
Very vibrant
Do you have a cloth reference?
The usual problem is that all cameras that do automatic white balance look for a so-called neutral gray point. If the whole camera or most of the camera is filled with a piece of fabric, it will often assume that that fabric is actually the neutral color. This is why so many navy suits on ebay look gray. The right way to take a quick and dirty iphone photo is to hold the fabric up so it's only part of the frame and ideally the rest of the frame has natural light, then the camera will tend to figure out a white balance close enough to accurate
TL;DR I actually have no idea if the color you are showing is accurate :P
BUT if it is, that's not dark at all, that's a ... gray / static / steel blue with a lot of specks in it, fairly desaturated, and somewhere in the mid-blue/mid-gray brightness level
I see that's H&S cloth?
Would it be from this book? https://apparel.hollandandsherry.com/en/fabric/pattern/donegal
Holland & Sherry
Holland & Sherry
Possibly this fabric? https://apparel.hollandandsherry.com/en/fabric/use/jackets/8821202-sherry-tweed-indigo-donegal-with-steel-blue-knepps
Holland & Sherry
Holland & Sherry's Sherry Tweed collection captures the essence of classic tweed whilst incorporating a contemporary colour palette.
I think this would be the darker alternative from that book: https://apparel.hollandandsherry.com/en/fabric/use/jackets/8821401-sherry-tweed-blue-donegal - https://cdn.iagapparel.com/resource/158e5205-5782-4b26-82a7-d06d0621e6c8.jpg
Holland & Sherry
Holland & Sherry's Sherry Tweed collection captures the essence of classic tweed whilst incorporating a contemporary colour palette.
Especially the darker seems surprisingly lightweight, though, but maybe it's more your speed
I don't know H&S's tailor pricing but I will say that their cloth is relatively expensive, additionally. If I was picking a fairly simple dark tweed pattern I am not certain I would spring for H&S. Fox brothers appeals to me more but for a solid color I'd shop around a bit.
Yes this one!
Did you go see that book in person? Was this your favorite?
Ok I'm asking the guy to inquire about fox and moon
Yes I'm there rn
It was the same price for Holland & sherry and moon
Nice!
So I'm looking for a dark blue Donegal with white specs
Do you know if fox brothers has that? He's going to check tomorrow morning
Seems like moon is my best bet
Is there a hierarchy between them or they just make different stuff?
I have no clue on fabrics but curious
Fox brothers and Holland & sherry is "nicer" than moon I think
I dunno what that means
I see. Fox does have a more premium name recognition from what i read from many stores descriptions of the fabric
I honestly could not tell you about quality, other than good. People do love Moon so they're certainly not bad in any way.
There are more mills than just those three of course. More UK mills doing tweed than just those three.
I'm fairly certain Holland & Sherry are not a maker, they just source from elsewhere? So they are just a curator essentially
So their tweed stuff might be Moon, might be Harris tweed
This corroborates https://www.permanentstyle.com/2021/04/introducing-ps-harris-tweed.html
Permanent Style
Introducing: PS Harris Tweed
My favourite Harris Tweed has not been available for a few years now. Originally offered by Holland & Sherry, I was such a fan that I used it for one of my favourite tweed jackets (from Elia Caliendo, below), a fantastic ulster coat from Liverano (above) and even a self-backed...
That one heck of a fabric
Wow
I am a sucker for vibrancy
But Holland & Sherry will have good sources for proper Donegal wool too of course
Ok the moon one is much heavier than the Holland & sherry too
Says 540 g/lm
That's why I abandoned getting the spier one lol
Wait so moon will be 19 ounces? I'm confused if the measurement units are equivalent here
The Holland & sherry just says 380 g or 12 oz
Abraham Moon & Sons
DONEGAL - Abraham Moon & Sons
Donegal Tweed is a generic term for loose Irish tweed of speckled appearance. Famous for its warmth and durability, its name is taken from the county of Donegal in Ireland. Woven from woollen spun yarns, it is characterised by its plain weave structure composed of uneven slub yarns contrasting with the ground colour. Kilcarra Donegal
Wait isn't 19 oz insanely heavy? Not that I'm not looking for a heavy sport jacket, looking to wear it in like 35 degrees
its an 11oz fabric as far as I can work out
they give their weight in g/lm, so you need to divide the glm by the width to get gsm
Thank you!
Ok so it's an oz lighter then
my maths is bad, so I would check that
but its def not 19oz
540g seems reasonable. Fairly heavy tweed. Usable for jacketing or an actual coat but light for a coat unless it's filled with something
380g seems a touch light for a tweed, 340g rather light.
The Fox tweed I want is 450 I think.
But yes it's not exactly just a straight conversion because 380g is not 12oz. There's different measurements if you use yards or meters.
So the moon Donegal may be too light?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Depends on the use case
Are you doing a 2-button or 3-roll-2? Fairly generous V? Do you plan to use it as a primary jacket or would you throw on an overcoat when it's cold? How far do you need to walk in the cold?
If I was going to spend most of my time in a car, on the subway, in the office, at home, at school, etc, while wearing it, I'd prefer a lighter tweed, with the assumption that I'd wear an overcoat. This would help you not overheat when wearing it where indoor temp is 65-75F. On the flip side, if I planned to wear it outdoors for 30+ minutes at a time, in the cold wind etc, I'd want a heavier tweed. I'd also prefer, to start, a slightly higher button stance, but possibly full 3-button with storm collar. That would make it a fairly purpose-built garment. It still probably wouldn't do once it starts to get well below freezing and cold, but it'd be lovely for, say, 40-50F days out in the country.
Tweed is generally considered a country fabric, but your standard modern sport coat would usually treat it as a city jacket, which is where I think a lot of the disconnect comes from.
With modern indoor HVAC and transportation, a tweed jacket might benefit from being lighter than heavier because it's country-fabric, city-style, city-worn, if that makes sense. If you actually plan to wear it for significant outdoorsing, which in NYC is very easy to do despite being a city, then you might want to shift the parameters: country-fabric, city-style, worn as if in the country. The downside of that of course is that country-style wears better for being outdoors. But if you committed to that, you'd limit its use in other respects. Tradeoffs!
FWIW if it was up to me I'd stick with the modern style (low V, low button stance, one cardinal button, whether that means 2-button, 1-button, or 3-r-2), in a mid to light weight, and when it's cold make up for it with a sweater, and when it's not so cold wear it open.
This is my inspiration photo for the jacket I plan to commission, he's literally in the country, but fuck it, lines are blurred, I'd wear it like that (minus the hat) in NYC. No third button, no storm collar, just make up for it with a sweater and judicious use of going indoors if surprised by the weather
TL;DR only too light if you want a true purpose-built country jacket, otherwise it's fine. If it's cold, put on a sweater.
Hope that helps
Yes very much so thank you!
Overcoat would be good but I need to find one
2 buttons it looks like
What do you mean by generous V? A looser fit?
Generous V = lower button stance, lapels cut to show more of your chest
Basically, how cold will you be when the wind blows right on your chest? The more generous the V, the colder you will be. ;) Or as an example, my WAYWT from last night has a dinner jacket with a pretty generous - deep and wide - V.
The colder you'll be, the more you will want to consider warmer shirts (broadcloth, thick oxford cloth, flannel, etc) and/or sweaters. If you look at a norfolk jacket, which is more or less the predecessor to the sport coat, you will see that it's cut for warmth outdoors rather than for showing off your nice shirt etc.
Roger Moore wearing his full norfolk: https://www.bondsuits.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Persuaders-Norfolk-Suit.jpg
Note the belted front, four buttons, small lapels, relatively closed quarters. The lapels would turn up and be buttoned around the neck via storm collar, and many had much more closed quarters, eg https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Bookster-Full-Norfolk-Jacket-Variation-585x900.webp
On the exact opposite end of the spectrum, here's a tweed jacket in a modern style: https://spmc.b-cdn.net/files/catalog/PRODUCT_IMAGES/8092--%201.jpg
3-r-2 with one button you actually fasten, which is at the natural waist, with open quarters. See how much more space there is for wind to make you cold in a jacket like this, versus the above, even though both are tweeds?
The bottom one is what's in modern style and I think it looks great on most people but you just have to consider personal comfort. This style is much more reasonable for indoors - it's easy to wear open and even closed helps do heat transfer - but it'll be a lot colder when you're going to Bryant Park for the christmas market, yeah? So if you go for that style you just have to plan for it, basically layer underneath when not too cold and layer atop when too cold for comfort.
In my experience, a tweed sport coat like this, with a heavier weight button-front shirt, and some leather gloves, plus flannel or tweed trousers, and I'm good down to 45F, maybe 40F (depending on tolerance), for walking around town for hours. I do not know the weight of my various tweed jackets, but... probably not 340g. A warmer layer can probably get you down to just about freezing for shorter times. Below that I'd want an overcoat or a different style jacket.
I hope that makes sense and/or helps
What pattern/color overcoat would you wear over a dark blue donegal sportcoat?
It'll be cold upstate when I go back to school in late Jan too
Colder than nyc
I like wheat dark brown or medium grey
Thank you! What pattern/fabric?
Plain or herringbone are the only two i could think of
Fabric is really depends on the makers but i am heavy in seh kelly
Mostly melton wool, or donegal balleycorn
Those are what attractive to me
Oh shoot seh Kelly's balmacaans are Donegal themselves
Not sure that would work
I wouldn't worry overmuch honestly. But if you don't want tweed the obvious choices to me are camel or cashmere. Both are great in beige, gray, navy, black. Black is probably the most neutral and likely to be versatile for "ever" probably?