Broguing on shoes: when is it appropriate to wear?
I really like the look of broguing (the small decorative holes) on shoes, but I'm a bit unclear about when it's considered appropriate. Best I can tell is it's a bit less formal than plain dress shoes, but would be fine for pretty much every occasion I have to get dressed up (going out to a show, job interview, etc). What's the general thought on when wearing shoes with brogues are appropriate/inappropriate?
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it's slightly off trend but I think you nailed it
The more brogueing, the more casual, within the style/type of shoe. There are a number of details that casualize a shoe and brogueing is one. Think none > perf toe > medallion toe > full brogue.
As for when it's appropriate - well. Remember that most people either never look at your shoe or they only notice when it's unusual. Generally there are only a few events when brogueing is entirely against common etiquette. There are very few events formal enough for it - mostly black tie (or white tie I suppose.) Now with that said, inappropriate is not the same as suboptimal; there will be times where it's not the best shoe, but probably nobody is gonna consciously ding you for it. I wouldn't wear brogues to a funeral, and if it's a full navy suit and tie sort of interview then probably not there either. Really any event where you want your best and crispest sub-black-tie-formality rig, or anything somber, casualizing elements probably are suboptimal even if not outright inappropriate.
Overall I'd rather a great shoe with full wingtip brogue than a weird looking shoe in the "correct" plain black calf captoe.
And honestly I wear a more casual shoe, like a brogue and/or cordovan shoe, far more often than the most formal variations because nobody gives a shit and I'm usually not aiming for the higher ends of formality.
I don't own brogues. Or even a leather shoe as of this moment. Largely because shows are expensive.
But I imagine brogue shoes would look nice with chinos t-shirt and woolen jumper.
Only thing I’d add to what’s been said is oxfords (closed lacing) vs derbies/bluchers (open lacing). Personally, I think oxfords (brogued or plain) look off with anything less formal than a full suit.
Yeah, the rules say oxfords are for suits. I break those rules regularly BUT I make sure to remind people which I think I did above .... hmmmmm on re-reading I don't think I did
Okay, yeah. It's a weird little quirk, but the same exact shoe, same shape, same leather, same sole, same company, etc, will often be offered in both closed and open lacing. The derby/blucher is more casual than the balmoral/oxford shoe. Why? Some guy said. Does that really matter for you? Well, sort of, in two ways: First, if you care at all about ye olde prescriptive classic menswear, then you may want to wear the right shoe for the right dress. Second, at the margins, ie, very casual or very formal, the wrong shoe doesn't fit the look (though some roll with it anyways.)
I must have confused my response here with another similar response ... yeah I see it, there's another question thread about shoes right now. Sorry for getting my wires crossed about where I wrote what
Anyways, I would suggest that an open laced shoe is more versatile, because a good blucher is fine with many/most suits and is also fine with (good) jeans and most anything in between, BUT if you want to wear oxfords more casually then nobody will stop you. I won't say you should, but I will say I do.
Derek Guy had a huge rant on SF about this years ago. While it’s true it’s a made up rule, I do think there is a visual sleekness with oxfords that you don’t get with derbies/bluchers. Imo, it’s easier to wear open laced shoes with suits than it is to wear closed laced shoes with non-suits.
Derek Guy has huge rants on lots of things. ;) I make sure to tell people the accepted practice, even if personally I don't follow it much and wear oxfords down a lot more than the rules say one should. :)
Follow up question - any advice on shoemakers to look at? I found a bit on Grant Stone (but a lot were out of stock) and Meermin didn't really seem to have much available right now.
What's your budget?
And what kind of shoe are you looking for?
Have you looked at Loake?
$300ish preferred, $500 max.
Hadn't heard of Loake before - looks like they have some good brogues, but having trouble finding a lot on my size (US 13 / UK 12)
NPS Solovair US
Black Hi-Shine American Brogue Shoe | Solovair | Handmade in England
Black Hi-Shine American Brogue Shoe made of leather using Goodyear welted construction with a signature soft suspension sole. Handmade in Wollaston, Northamptonshire, England.
Definitely allen edmonds in that price range. Are you looking for bluchers/derbies or oxfords?
Alden might maybe be found at $500 but it would be hard to buy retail at that price these days. You could find new in box on ebay etc for less.
Bluchers/derbies. Both the AE and Solovair are oxfords, sadly.
Or I could just follow your advice and ignore the oxford/suit thing
Alden makes lovely brogue derbies but none msrp at $500
Does Carmina? Unsure their pricing. Great shoes.
Vass might be at the top end of the budget
Found what I want with Rancourt! https://www.rancourtandcompany.com/products/chandler-longwing-black-calf?size=13&width=E&color=Black&variant=34408952103044
Rancourt & Co.
Chandler Longwing - Black Calf
The Chandler Longwing gets it's name from the wing shaped vamp overlay that extends all the way back to the heel of the shoe. The long wing has become an icon of American style, it embodies strength and rugged sophistication. The timeless appeal of the longwing makes this shoe a great investment for any man looking to
Carmina also has some options but they're around $525
LONGWING DERBY SHOES 80474 RAIN
BROWN CALF LONGWING DERBY...
And Vass does appear to be an option as well (though card to tell if this more derby vs oxford) https://vass-shoes.com/shop/alt-wien-p2/?v=7516fd43adaa
Vass Shoes
Alt Wien * P2 - Vass Shoes
Alt Wien * P2 - For classic gentlemen and those who prefer a simpler toe cap compared to the wing tip. The model has a masculine silhouette and fits well with casual wear also. Usually made on more traditional and round lasts. Manufactured with the traditional hand-welted method. Completely handmade. Our shoes are finished with vegetably tanned ...
That's not an oxford
Oxford/balmoral is closed lacing, derby/blucher is open lacing. This one is open
Do you prefer the wingtip (longwing in this case) or the medallion toe? Rancourt is a longwing, vass is a medallion toe
Ahh, didn't know if this was close enough to be closed lacing. Got it.
I definitely prefer wingtip/long wing over medallion
Closed lacing is the one where the leather meets either in a straight line or, depending on fitment, a very narrow V. Open lacing, there is a visible gap always. If you look at the construction, you can see that the leather is just cut and shaped differently in that area. Other than that detail, they're generally built the same (ie, a company will make both on the same last) and fit the same.
So yeah now you're narrowing down what you like with terms, it's much easier to find when you know the terms to search for.