Cloudflare Developers•2y ago

<https://flareutils.pages.dev/betterkv/>

https://flareutils.pages.dev/betterkv/

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:18 PM

Part of Flareutils: https://flareutils.pages.dev/

x03•3/26/24, 4:18 PM

Ah even better

x03•3/26/24, 4:18 PM

I'm still a little sad I made my whole project work on Cloudflare just to realize the pricing would absolutely kill me because of the checks I do in the middleware

x03•3/26/24, 4:18 PM

I dont think the app would be sustainable

x03•3/26/24, 4:19 PM

even with betterKV

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:19 PM

Yeah, it would depend on how many requests you get.

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:19 PM

KV has a free tier but you might not fit into that free tier.

x03•3/26/24, 4:19 PM

Definetally not, I already have workers paid

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:20 PM

You get 10 million/month reads a month then.

Xx03 my main reason for storing sessions in KV was because of the expiration feature ...

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:20 PM

am I missing something or why not DOs and Alarms?

x03•3/26/24, 4:20 PM

I've never worked with durable objects, would they be a cheaper alternative?

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:21 PM

Cheaper for reads even including requests, otherwise depends on how much duration you use: https://developers.cloudflare.com/durable-objects/platform/pricing/

Cloudflare Docs

Pricing · Cloudflare Durable Objects docs

Durable Objects are only available on the Workers Paid plan.

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:22 PM

DOs are supported in a bunch of places, https://where.durableobjects.live/, support their own tranactional storage api which replicates reads to a few nearby dcs for redundancy. You make a Durable Object instance per user, store cookie/etc in their storage, and setup an alarm to delete it in x time

Xx03 I'm still a little sad I made my whole project work on Cloudflare just to realiz...

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:23 PM

What checks do you do in middleware that would be expensive though?

CChaika DOs are supported in a bunch of places, https://where.durableobjects.live/, supp...

x03•3/26/24, 4:23 PM

Would this be the best solution over KV and D1 for storing sessions?

CChaika What checks do you do in middleware that would be expensive though?

x03•3/26/24, 4:23 PM

Every request that goes through has a session (KV) read and a database (D1) read

x03•3/26/24, 4:24 PM

The app I'm building basically requires that I do this for security

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:24 PM

D1 uses Durable Objects under the hood, so pretty much the same pros/cons, D1 would probably be cheaper though

x03•3/26/24, 4:25 PM

Ah makes sense

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:25 PM

I mean, could just have a expired at column in D1 and some cron job cleaning them up

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:26 PM

although Durable Objects could always be created closest to the visitor, whereas D1 is in one location

CChaika I mean, could just have a expired at column in D1 and some cron job cleaning the...

x03•3/26/24, 4:27 PM

Would the cron jobs be expensive? I've never worked with cron jobs on CF

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:28 PM

nah it's just a worker invocation

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:28 PM

plus whatever D1 units you'd incur by deleting those rows

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:29 PM

https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/configuration/cron-triggers/ just a matter of configuring the cron time and adding the cron eventhandler

x03•3/26/24, 4:30 PM

Alright, I guess I'll move sessions over to D1 and make a cron that deletes them.

PencilNavigator•3/26/24, 4:30 PM

Hi, for Cloudflare Dashboard is not working for some reason, is there a downtime or sth?

x03•3/26/24, 4:31 PM

I'm still a little nervous about the Cloudflare pricing though, its very possible that my initial app launch could cost a lot, since I cant really estimate usage at the moment.

x03•3/26/24, 4:31 PM

But I guess I'll see. Worst case scenario I can take the app down for a bit and switch to hosting on a VPS. I'd rather avoid that but if pricing becomes an issue that's the only choice I see as viable.

PPencilNavigator Hi, for Cloudflare Dashboard is not working for some reason, is there a downtime...

x03•3/26/24, 4:32 PM

Yeah mine's down too

x03•3/26/24, 4:32 PM

for certain pages

Iiamnotapipe this website is tripping me out. what exactly is it supposed to be telling me??

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:33 PM

click on a dc and you'll see where DOs run

PPencilNavigator Hi, for Cloudflare Dashboard is not working for some reason, is there a downtime...

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:33 PM

https://www.cloudflarestatus.com/incidents/b31dxdz60366

Cloudflare Dashboard and Cloudflare API service issues

Iiamnotapipe this website is tripping me out. what exactly is it supposed to be telling me??

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:33 PM

for example, DOs in South America run in East Coast https://where.durableobjects.live/colo/GRU/

Where Durable Objects Live

São Paulo, Brazil(colo) | Where Durable Objects Live

Tracking where Durable Objects are created, wherever you are in the world.

x03•3/26/24, 4:35 PM

@Chaika this is kind of a broad question, but do you know of any tools that can estimate the cost of cloudflare services based on my expected daily users? Or anything similar to that

x03•3/26/24, 4:36 PM

I could do calculations by hand, but I'm not sure how to estimate certain things, like how many requests does a user send on average

x03•3/26/24, 4:37 PM

I guess I could actually just use the app myself like a normal user would, and tally up my requests that way

Iiamnotapipe what does it mean for a DO to "run"? i am not so sure how DO works .. is there a...

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:39 PM

Workers are V8 Isolates, a kind of single-threaded web environment javascript execution environment. Durable Objects are the same, also isolates, but the catch is there's only one per Durable Object ID in the entire world, and they have transactional consistent storage. Their storage has to be reliable, so they can only run in locations where there is several nearby DCs to replicate writes to

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:41 PM

Same region yea

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:41 PM

might fallover to a nearby dc but it won't go that far

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:41 PM

D1 DBs for example use DO Instances

Iiamnotapipe is a DO like a "singleton" that moves around??

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:45 PM

It doesn't move around, it stays in the same place once created.
You define a Durable Object in your code, for example for a session store. You then create a DO instance per user which gets created nearby and won't move, and you can save the session cookie/token in storage. Then, whenever the user goes to auth, you have the DO which is nearby to check for their auth. state.

jersey•3/26/24, 4:46 PM

cloudflare down? new domains not recognizing ;c

Chaika•3/26/24, 4:46 PM

You benefit from the fact that there's only one DO and storage is transactional/with locks, don't have to wait for eventual consistency like with KV, and it's nearby the user so low latency

<https://flareutils.pages.dev/betterkv/>

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