VC3.1 500mm Enc 2.0 BRS AWD Ti Gantry Tube Belt Tension
I'm looking for some help regarding my belt tension. I'm assuming this is too much tension?
Printer Specs Below
VC3.1 500mm + Enclosure 2.0
BRS AWD Kit @BRS-ENGINEERING-Florent Broise
Genuine Gates Hi Temp Belts GT2 EPDM
48v 5160 stepper motor drivers
Toro3D Titanium Gantry Tube @[email protected]
EVA 3 Printhead (modded to fit VZ Hextrudort & Goliath)
Provok3D Nozzle ADXL
Will update more.
I'm having an issue with belt tension ever switching to the high temp EPDM and can't seem to stop pulling out the lower belt loop.
91 Replies
Black is Polymaker PolyMax Tough PC and the gray is Polymaker PolyLite ASA.
the graph is a mess, if you are looking for help always post all the graphs not only belt tension one.
if you broke the parts you most likely overdid it on tension, or the chamber temps were high.
you can follow https://canary.discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/791048619997659176/1196002549606666260 to check your absolute tension.
i'd also look closely at the belt paths if they are parallel to rails. maybe there's problem with AWD assembly and it skews the belts.
https://yko.im/TRFt.png if i had to guess those are your actual axis resonances, rest is noise, that shouldn't be there
I appreciate the help! I’ll look into the belt path tomorrow. I typically print exclusively ASA, PC, and other high temp materials. I wasn’t sure if the heat from the hotend was softening the printhead and it was overtensioned. I was using a 2510 GDSTime fan and have a 3010 on the way in case the CFM isn’t enough for the Goliath. It does have a sock though so I’m not entirely sure. I didn’t have this issue until I switched to the EPDM belt.
I should mention that I’m using the @Provok3d.com Provok3D Nozzle ADXL
2510 should be better than 3010 for goliath, 2510 delta fan would probably be the best.
it definitely radiates some heat to the printed parts. but they should be able to hold anyway.
once you verify the belts, and if the problem still persists. you could attach the provok adxl somewhere on the toolhead to compare if this stuff disappears https://yko.im/tBYn.png if it does i it could mean that the goliath isn't attached very well to the toolhead
Hello! Have you done the 4 motors synchro ?
Dammit, I forgot this time. I’ll sync and rerun the graphs.
I’ll swap back to the 2510 and see if nozzle adxl can be mounted to the traditional spot on the printhead.
This can make a HUGE difference
This is like my third time replacing the printed part and I totally forgot. Thanks for the suggestion!
We will see, maybe there will be other points to check afteward
Updated graphs after syncing motors. Maybe I already did it and forgot because at quick glance it looks close to being the same.
After moving the ADXL to the tradtional spot. It's not secured the greatest but seems to show improvement
uuuhm, you have both X axis graph and Y axis graph show resonance on the same axis, you sure the Y graph got generated correctly?
It probably has to do with how I mounted it to the printhead. I didn't define the X, Y, and Z. I'll go ahead and redefine them since it's definitely not right.
👍
aka "axes_map"
I’ll be removing the cable chain seeing as it’s sagging now to go back to an umbilical cord setup.
This is after removing the cable chain but I can't seem to find the printed cable clamp on the printhead. So I'm going to print that. I'm hoping that I don't have another belt loop issue. I'm curious how the resonance graphs change after heatsoaking the chamber.
After heatsoaking the chamber for about 30 mins
A cable chain like this shouldn't hang on the toolhead
Tis no longer there. Surprisingly nothing really changed much.
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Tilted rear cable chain mount by elcojacobs | Download free STL mod...
Tilted cable chain mount to compensate for droop to take the weight off the tool head | Download free 3D printable STL models
Tilting it helps
This is a lot better than the first one
Thanks for this btw!
The curves seem slightly better but I was expecting a decent change in the delta
Investigate where that 80hz bump is coming from
Could be a loose fan duct
I’ll have to redo the tests and listen during 80hz and see what I can find.
I also don't like that your USB cable is hanging on what I think is your adxl
Fixate it with a tie wrap so it doesn't tug on the board
I actually tossed a zip tie on after the photo lol
I wonder if I used an extra shim or something stupid like that on the FMMM mod
The peak is only in y
So check something swinging in that direction
I used loctite with heat inserts so the print head should be good but I’ll give it a once over. I wonder if it’s picking up the connectors rattling since they are mostly unchanged.
I’m printing the cable guide rn so that’ll help clean up the wiring a bit.
@elco
Another good test might to hold the cables during the test
Or do the shake test at low speed just around the problem frequencies
There's a setting for the duration per Hz and the range
Going to sleep now
After redoing the printhead.
I'm currently in the middle of redesigning the VZ RR CNC printhead to work on the MGN12 rail.
How does the numbers look? Does the belt tension look too high? This is on a cold bed. I'm going to do a heatsoak for 30 mins to see how that changes things since I mostly print high temp filaments.
Graphs after about 25 mins of heat soaking
Graphs after about an hour of heat soaking
Also found my culprit.
It’s something to do with the decoupler in the back right.
I think the pin is touching the stepper motor shaft because the screws are all tight. I’m too tired to fix it now but I it’ll be the first thing I tackle tomorrow morning.
The first iteration of tweaking the decoupler mod in the back right (when looking at the printer from the front), an improvement on X and Y.
The back right motor is still loud as shit though.
I wonder if the bearings are going in the motor itself. I'm going to try sliding the decoupler a little further down on the motor shaft.
I only focused on readjusting the pin that connected the idler pulley to the decoupler.
@BRS-ENGINEERING-Florent Broise How much accel should I expect to gain in the Y direction on a 500mm AWD conversion?
@[email protected] How much or little has the titanium tube changed resonances?
These are on a cold bed. I'm going to heat soak it, and if it's anything like the other graphs, the spikes around 75hz and above should flatten a little bit.
it definitely looks better than before
Forsure!
It's DEFINITELY heading in the right direction.
I greatly appreciate your input as well.
Besides the tension issue destroying the belt loop, it's been pretty flawless, and puts out good prints. It's actually kinda crazy how well the machine works even when it's not dialed in.
I'm going to probably focus on this issue for today, and call it since I want toput more of my time designing a CNC VZ RR MGN12 Printhead.
If the motors are loud, have you tried this? https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/791048619997659176/1012492859712209029
Im not sure whether it applies to 4wd
stepper configuration shouldn't really matter, might be good idea to try
it's just the back right one, the back left is pretty silent or is getting drowned out by the back right. I'll probably pull decoupler mod apart and take a look at everything. I'll try and get a video of it too.
Flipping the pins is quick to try, so I would try it anyway. I still don't know why it works
@elco @Prav
I found my issue,
There’s zero clearance between my stepper motor and electronics panel
https://yko.im/sNyi.png youhave loose panel screw next to the stepper as well
Nice catch!
I'm curious how much of a pain it'd be to fix the electronics panel. I'm debating on waiting until I can get my hands on a VC4 and then take a look at the frame on this machine.
fixed lol
:stonks:
i'd check all of those, it's easy to miss
For what has been experienced so far, 1.5x-3x are generally what is achieve. It can fluctuate depending some factors; assembly quality, Y rails/X rail Z1 Preloaded or not, toolhead type, Adxl positionning, that kind of stuffs
My VC400 based was siting at 6500mm.s² and went to 13400mm.s² with the AWD drives on a TMC2209 24V setup
i also got around 50% higher recommendations on Y axis with BRS awd, printed at home https://yko.im/YgdE.png
That’s absolutely insane and those graphs look great!
Thank you for this! I’ll respond in detail shortly!
@BRS-ENGINEERING-Florent Broise is this still the current method of tensioning?
https://github.com/FlorentBroise/BRS-Printers-Mod/blob/main/manuals/belt.pdf
GitHub
BRS-Printers-Mod/manuals/belt.pdf at main · FlorentBroise/BRS-Print...
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I’ve picked this up and I’m really hoping this will help me get close to equal tension as possible
https://shop.app/p/7971943219412?variantId=43928937660628&utm_source=shop_app&utm_medium=shop_app_share&utm_campaign=share_product&link_alias=jctyHfkMX9NUBg
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Completely Assembled 3D printer Belt Tension Meter - by PF Makes - ...
Complete Assembled West3D Edition 3D printer Belt Tension Meter, Note: This is a special West3D edition of the belt tension meter, designed for us by Community Partner PF Makes which makes stylistic changes to match our brand. This is a GT2 belt tension meter to assist in properly tensioning belts on your 3D printer. Works on any accessible GT2 ...
Yes this is the one I use for my own production machines😃
Any idea what's the corresponding value on pf tensioner for the hz shown in BRS guide ?
I haven’t gotten around to figuring this out yet as I’ve shifted focus onto designing & machining an aluminum toolhead. Maybe @BRS-ENGINEERING-Florent Broise can provide some input.
Is that the vz printhead for ratrig? Btw I am using one myself and have a very similar shape of spike around 80hz.
And mine is with a modified top and bottom plate for mgn9
Yeah, it’s more or less a Vz style for RR but it’s designed around the MGN12 rail!
Nice. I am not too sure about what's causing the 80hz bump though. Seems to be toolhead related since I am having that too. I have a suspicion that the 2510 fan mount is not rigid enough to hold the long Goliath tool head
I took inspiration and drew up an adapter plate with a heat sink on it for a short air-cooled Goliath. Let's see how that goes
I’d say that’s a pretty good assumption! Please let me know how the adapter plate works out for you!
I just read the manual of tensioner. The meter should show 1.9 for 10N of force at 150mm belt length
so probably around 1.9 to 2.15 according to Prav values
Thank you very much for this!
@auggie The measurement out of the guide I have done is a calculation to go from the Gates recommended tension value (exprmed in Lbs) to a frequecy measurment. th PF module seems to read the actual lbs value out of the belt so 2 different methods
you can see the formula applied here https://github.com/FlorentBroise/BRS-Printers-Mod/blob/main/manuals/Belt_Tension_Calculations.ods
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I am comparing your method and Prav method, it's almost identical except that @Prav divided the force by two since the belt wrapped around the motor shaft twice, which makes sense to me
Yes because in the formula Im giving you, wer are aiming to transform a frequecy into a tension, on a unit level. The PF tool use a lever system, with a pulley transformation so you mesure a force going on 2 both side
The method is different, the result should aim the same final range 😉
Theoratically
in practice some other parameters can slightly modify the results minus or less a small margin of error. My method works with the margin of error of the frequecy mesurement tool and the reading you are making of it. The PF tool lock the extra parameters away so it may be a bit better, less reading errors (?) I cant tell I have not used it 😉
Update:
I had hip surgery, so this took me a min to get around to but here we go.
I got around to getting my initial toolhead revision CNC'd and installed.
Initial revision isn't optimized by any means and CNC parts weigh roughly 70g.
The backplate is solid and can definitely be lightened up a bit.
Cable management could use some work as well.
I still have to get the CPAP installed but it's basically complete otherwise.
I'm struggling to dial in this gates high temp belt.
This is the same belt tension and the only difference is a 90-120 min heatsoak.
I might go back to the belt that came with the machine if I can't get the tension down.
Most of the noise was me cutting the zip tie on the cable guide and forgetting to rezip it
Belt tension pre heatsoak
Belt tension after 90-120 min heatsoak
Looks like gantry twist.