yeah I'd love to have centos as a tag option in the main images. Like we have :latest, :40: 39, it's

yeah I'd love to have centos as a tag option in the main images. Like we have :latest, :40: 39, it's be nice to do :el10 or whatever so people can just use centos derived images downstream

j0rgeOP•8/15/24, 2:16 PM

basically I also want to make a bluefin:lts that's bluefin but on centos.

j0rgeOP•8/15/24, 2:17 PM

your stuff looks super cool, I wish more people were making images heh

imbev•8/15/24, 3:53 PM

That's certainly possible

imbev•8/15/24, 3:54 PM

Is ublue infrastructure compatible with bootc yet?

Iimbev Is ublue infrastructure compatible with bootc yet?

xyny•8/15/24, 3:57 PM

ublue actually shipped bootc for a moment a while back, but i believe it caused some issue and had to be reverted

xyny•8/15/24, 3:57 PM

in my own testing, though, it worked perfectly

antheas•8/15/24, 3:58 PM

Broke the ISOs

antheas•8/15/24, 3:58 PM

Anaconda moment

Iimbev Is ublue infrastructure compatible with bootc yet?

j0rgeOP•8/15/24, 4:02 PM

yeah we can move to bootc, the biggest issue is waiting for fedora bootc images but looks like the EL folks got those rolling faster than fedora

imbev•8/15/24, 4:16 PM

The main obstacle that I see right now is the lack of integration with GNOME Software and the rest of the GUI package managers

Iimbev The main obstacle that I see right now is the lack of integration with GNOME Sof...

Kyle Gospo•8/15/24, 4:16 PM

we remove rpm-ostree integration from GNOME software today

Kyle Gospo•8/15/24, 4:16 PM

not really an obstacle

Kyle Gospo•8/15/24, 4:17 PM

it slows it down to a crawl and makes it into a terrible experience when it's present

imbev•8/15/24, 4:17 PM

In that case, I don't see why it wouldn't work

imbev•8/15/24, 4:18 PM

The Fedora images are being produced, however the F40 image is not regularly built IIRC. There are a few projects building personal Fedora bootc images

imbev•8/15/24, 4:19 PM

If you take a look at https://github.com/AlmaLinux/bootc-images, it's not too difficult to build a base image

antheas•8/15/24, 4:20 PM

theres no such thing as a "bootc" base image yet, if you look under those images you can see theres a little ostree commit in there made by rpm-ostree

antheas•8/15/24, 4:20 PM

unless something changed

antheas•8/15/24, 4:21 PM

https://gitlab.com/fedora/bootc/base-images nope

GitLab

fedora / bootc / Base Images · GitLab

GitLab.com

imbev•8/15/24, 4:22 PM

bootc uses ostree under the hood

antheas•8/15/24, 4:22 PM

yeah

antheas•8/15/24, 4:22 PM

but for building images rpm-ostree is still used

imbev•8/15/24, 4:22 PM

It's the delivery method that's different

imbev•8/15/24, 4:23 PM

By base image, I mean an image that downstream bootc images can FROM imageFROM image from

antheas•8/15/24, 4:23 PM

yeah but the old ones that we use are bootc images with that definition

Noel•8/15/24, 4:24 PM

I thought fedora-bootc was building from scratch containers as well? Meaning there is no rpm-ostree step in the process

imbev•8/15/24, 4:24 PM

Can you send a link to early attempts at ublue bootc?

Iimbev Can you send a link to early attempts at ublue bootc?

Noel•8/15/24, 4:25 PM

@Robert (p5) would for sure have those links.

Noel•8/15/24, 4:25 PM

He's also been attending the Fedora bootc initiative meetings more regularly than I have.

Noel•8/15/24, 4:25 PM

If you have time on your schedule, it would be cool to get more people going to that!

antheas•8/15/24, 4:26 PM

currently the only projects that can produce base images are rpm-ostree and rechunk

Robert•8/15/24, 4:26 PM

I don't think we've been doing any ublue-specific investigation for bootc images, but I've got some personal attempts for KDE and GNOME base images here
https://github.com/rsturla/fedora-bootc-base

When I left the repo 3 months ago, they booted into a desktop but had one or two services starting when they shouldn't be.

antheas•8/15/24, 4:27 PM

this is what my research lead me to at least

antheas•8/15/24, 4:27 PM

until the podman PR merges for bootc, both bootc and rpm-ostree can only pull images that contain an ostree commit

antheas•8/15/24, 4:27 PM

and that commit can only be created by rpm-ostree, if you want it to be chunked

antheas•8/15/24, 4:28 PM

well that used to be the case before rechunk at least

imbev•8/15/24, 4:28 PM

Misclick

Aantheas until the podman PR merges for bootc, both bootc and rpm-ostree can only pull im...

Noel•8/15/24, 4:28 PM

It's my understanding that bootc is not replacing OSTree, it's replacing rpm-ostree with itself and DNF?

antheas•8/15/24, 4:28 PM

rpm-ostree has 2 components in it

NNoel It's my understanding that bootc is not replacing OSTree, it's replacing rpm-ost...

imbev•8/15/24, 4:28 PM

That's my understanding also

antheas•8/15/24, 4:28 PM

an image builder and a deployer

Robert•8/15/24, 4:28 PM

To begin with, bootc will call rpm-ostree. Then rpm-ostree should be replaced by dnf

antheas•8/15/24, 4:28 PM

nobody has replaced the image builder yet

imbev•8/15/24, 4:29 PM

https://containers.github.io/bootc/relationships.html?highlight=ostree#relationship-with-other-projects

Relationship with other projects - bootc

Aantheas nobody has replaced the image builder yet

Noel•8/15/24, 4:29 PM

Can't you just use OSTree to build that object and add it to a scratch container?

Noel•8/15/24, 4:29 PM

Just OSTree, not rpm-ostree.

imbev•8/15/24, 4:30 PM

Overall, rpm-ostree is used in several important projects and will continue to be maintained for many years to come.

However, for use cases which want a "pure" image based model, using bootc will be more appealing. bootc also does not e.g. drag in dependencies on libdnf and the RPM stack.

bootc also has the benefit of starting as a pure Rust project; and while it doesn't have an IPC mechanism today, the surface of such an API will be significantly smaller.

Further, bootc does aim to include some of the functionality of zincati.

But all this said: It will be supported to use both bootc and rpm-ostree together; they are not exclusive. For example, bootc status at least will still function even if packages are layered.

Noel•8/15/24, 4:31 PM

@Robert (p5) what was the issue we were having with anaconda? I thought @M2 and I sorted that out a while back.

Noel•8/15/24, 4:31 PM

If bootc and rpm-ostree can live in harmony, we should look at adding it back to the images again.

NNoel Can't you just use OSTree to build that object and add it to a scratch container...

imbev•8/15/24, 4:31 PM

Yes, although rpm-ostree is the only method currently used that I'm aware of

yeah I'd love to have centos as a tag option in the main images. Like we have :latest, :40: 39, it's

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