Inconsistent Flow on each print/ day

Hello, This is ABS and I have little gaps in the massive infill but also a little bit overflow in the top layer. I print with 15mm/s max flow and have a speed of 200mm/s on the infill and 100mm/s on top layer. I am thankful for every idea or Tipp.
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417 Replies
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
@miklschmidt hello 😁 can you help with printing too or only the software ? 😁😊
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
@Helge Keck maybe it is a problem that I have here 0.6 nozzle but using a 0.4 ?
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
No Classic example of exceeding flow rate. You might need to print it hotter, or you need to slow down (either slower speed, less layer height/width etc, whatever you want to reduce the flow rate), and make sure you calibrate your extrusion multiplier and PA for that filament at the speeds you're actually running in practice (not some slowed down version). 1) print a temp tower 2) find max flowrate with a flowrate test 3) set slicer settings so it doesn't exceed flowrate 4) calibrate PA You need to do this for all new filaments.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
Yes I do this for every printer and for every filament Also I slowed down to 8 max flow so 100mm/s but also no changes I also tried to calibrate the flow while printing this print but if I set the massive layer perfect then the top layer has much overflow
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
what slicer are you using?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
Orca and tested Prusa too
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
I'm asking because if you don't have extrusion issues and you've calibrated your PA, that's the only source of error left PA does not look calibrated in your images though
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
But today I tested the flow again and now with a flow of 1.008 it looks good on all layers But the odd thing is…
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2mo ago
maybe as simple as wrong layer line widths for the different features
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
But that wouldn't create gaps unless he didn't adjust the layer width but just yanked up spacing
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
The upper one is 1.008 flow and the other 0.96 but looks really similar
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2mo ago
thats true, but must be a slicer thing as you said its too consistent to be hardware issue
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
indeed those are both overextruded 😂
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
Yes a little bit but the upper one is 1 flow and the down is 0.96
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
Hmm i wonder if that's the issue on the top one as well, lighting is just deceiving. No a lot Is this ABS? Usually i need like 0.91 or less with ABS.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
It’s on the picture Yes ABS
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
But with this I have issues in the massive layers
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
Your flow should be tuned for top layers. So do that (see guide)
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
What do you mean have more flow ?
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
Both of those are overextruded You need less. Not more.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
Yes This is less The top one have 1.008 The down one have 0.99
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
No that's more
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
That is the strange thing No 😄
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
Yeah said you tried 0.96
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
This was yesterday
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
0.99 and 1.008 are both more than 0.96
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
I printed this at the moment This was yesterday
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
All of this is too much, way too much Try 0.90
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
Yes but if I go more down I got holes A quick another question make it sense to set the microsteps to 16 ?
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
240 is also very low for ABS you should be at 250-260
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
I have 275
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
It says 240 in your profile
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
what's the top number?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
It doesn’t matter it only says min and max but it doesn’t matter I print with 275
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
Weird That's a lot.. but ok You're still overextruding 🙂
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
Haha yes What do you say
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
Yes but it won't change this
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2mo ago
Okay okay then I will print now with 0.95
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2mo ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
Yes tried this I used the orca flow calibration Minimum 10 tunes Times But if the top layer is perfect Then the massive layers have holes I never had some issues like here and i have 10 printers here 😁 Only say that you know I don’t do this for the first time haha So now I did again this test
03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
91% was the result But with 91% I got holes
03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
But also some layers are without holes
03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
Flow 0.92
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
Flow 0.91
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
The 0.91 flow looks like Moore flow then the 0.92 🤯 @miklschmidt @Helge Keck So something is wrong with my 2nd head First layer perfect with the second then again underextrusion Then a test printed just 6 layers 5 pcs perfect the 6th lower extrusion I took the sock away from the nozzle and everything is full of filament I think somewhere something flows out But what I don’t understand is why it fits in a moment and then again not like such a wobbly contact Can you explain that somehow?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck5w ago
nozzle not correctly tightened or the 3 rapido screwas are not tight and it leaks out of the heatbreak
miklschmidt
miklschmidt5w ago
I took the sock away from the nozzle and everything is full of filament I think somewhere something flows out
Well that explains a lot 😄
03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
Yes this must be because the z offset is 0.03 @Helge Keck checked the toolhead and everything seams okay now But still on the second layer massive unterextrusion all over the plate and then the 3rd layer was good again This is second
03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
This is 3rd
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
The nozzle is also clean
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP5w ago
This is the flow Or should be
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Have you checked your extruder tension?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Yes
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
This is with 0.96
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
This is with 1 flow
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
But here looks 1 too much (Upper one is 0.96)
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
looks good 👍 Is this with 0.96 too? and what layer?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Yes second layer and first layer was good height
Helge Keck
Helge Keck4w ago
maybe print with a little bit more temp or less fan
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Have 280 degrees for ASA
Helge Keck
Helge Keck4w ago
also make sure your nozzle is clean
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Yes the problem is that if I calculate the filament with 50x50 cubes then 1 flow looks too much and 96 looks good But in real it was too less
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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Helge Keck
Helge Keck4w ago
the hole of the nozzle
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
It is clean and I let the Silikon socked away to see if something comes where it should not haha It’s clean too
Helge Keck
Helge Keck4w ago
then you cool down the nozzle with the fan
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
I see a problem here. The extender nut should be (hot) tightened against the heater, not the nozzle. i see a gap
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
What Don’t understand what you mean
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Bad idea Cooling will fuck up your flow without the sock
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay know now I will now put it back on And start a test print again with 0.99 flow
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Ah you mean this one ?
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
yes stay at 0.96
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay So no Fan is active This is 0.99 flow
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Yes the socket is off but if no fan is active this should not matter or ? Another thing is that I have 0.04 mm z offset between the toolheads and the screw normally is completely screwed in
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
0.99
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
1 Flow
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
I tried to screw it Moore in but it seems like the maximum also on toolhead 0 is the gap
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
really seems like you may have messed up the feature specific flow rates in your slicer
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
What do you mean ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck4w ago
he means its not the printer its your slicer profile
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
But what can this cause ? Do you have ideas ? So 100% Flow is too much in the end Or do you have a profile for me that I can test (then I will change only temperature flow to 0.96 and pa)
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Yes, if you have set different flow rates for different features..
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
No only for the first layer 2% Moore
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
100% flow is always too much for ABS explains why your second layer is bad Don't ever adjust flow rates on a feature basis (except for bridging). If you struggle with bed adhesion change the line width, not the flow rate.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
This is ASA My fist problem was with ABS and my result was 0.95 wich was good Okay then I will set this to 100% check the first layer height and test again
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Same check the first layer height? what do you mean?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
If my zoffset is too far away This is the problem I think you think or ?
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Ah.. As long as you're not actually measuring the first layer with calipers and using that as an indication of anything lol. No, i think your issue was your slicer
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay no haha my only problem are the holes So you mean if I set the flow for first layer to 100 then it should work ?
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
0.3mm first layer height. Flow 100% across the board, except for bridging.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Will test it now Okay I think this works 🥲 don’t thought that this little first layer difference make so much difference Thank you very very much
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Now even the 96% flow looks like too much
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Yeah told you it’s supposed to be like 91 😅
tg73
tg734w ago
Sounds like it might be heading in the right direction...
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Can you explain me why first and second layer is good and 3rd layer have holes in and then after infill it looks good or a little bit too much like 1% flow too much
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
So it didn't work?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
If I go down to 95% flow I have holes in the 3rd layer If I go with 96% then not but then the top look a like overextending
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Sorry, I don't know, something is wrong with your filament, extruder, hotend and/or slicer profile. Since it's so random like that, i really think it's a mechanical or slicing issue. Are you using a reverse bowden like you're supposed to or are you just running the filament straight into your extruder? It's hard to tell without seeing your slicer profile and detailed pics of the hardware (including internals).
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
I use a Bowden What do you need will send you everything 😄😅
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Could be something stupid like an offset extruder gear
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
How can I find out
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
:kekw: check if the grooves are aligned And check if the grooves are aligned with the hole/tube. open it up
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay will check this
Helge Keck
Helge Keck4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
This is false or ?
Helge Keck
Helge Keck4w ago
yep
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay 👍
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
This is now 95%
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
This looks good
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
So 95% second layer
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
3rd layer
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
4th layer
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
This is periodic underextrusion..
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
From layer to layer it’s getting more worse till infill and top layers
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Send me a debug zip, i'm thinking you may have messed up the current or something
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay one minute
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Or your tension is effed or your hotend is effed 😄 It's very clear that this is not a slicer issue from that picture. The lines reduce in size
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Yes think so too 😄
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Current is correct
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
The odd thing it’s only on the layers bevore infill Sad 😄 this would be the easiest way
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
So either your tension is bottomed out or barely grabbing the filament Or your hotend is damaged. Can you hear it skipping?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
No There is no skipping
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Not enough tension then i would assume, unless the hotend is damaged. Or you still haven't put the sock on. Or you haven't hot tightened the nut against the heater as i mentioned earlier
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
My sock is back on 😄 Yes I did
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Okay, so you're now down to 2 things: Extruder tension too loose -> tighten it. Hotend damaged, possibly heatbreak -> disassemble the hotend and inspect all the parts, particularly the heatbreak.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay I will print the same file everything same with head number one My tension should be good
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
how do you know?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
I tried to pull it out but I can’t only if the extruder is spinning
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
And you're sure it's not too tight?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
I don’t really now I think it is not too tight but it’s just what I think
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
You should calibrate it by starting loose, then tighten slowly until you can't pull it out when the motor is engaged and extruding.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
How does this look for you ?
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
like a nozzle that isn't properly hot tightened and way too much tension
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Now the nozzle is at 270 degrees i will loosen it and screw back in again And then I will bring the filament in like you said (or the tension)
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
The extender nut, is it just a nut or does it have an M6 thread like a nozzle? If it's just a nut (ie, you're using volcano nozzles), screw it down towards the tip nozzle -> hot tighten nozzle, then hot tighten nut against the heater. If it has an M6 thread, first hottighten the extender, then hot tighten the nozzle.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
What do I have ?😁
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
I literally can't tell when it's assembled.. (plus that is not hot tightened...)
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay wait
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
you have filament leaking out
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Are you using V6 or Volcano nozzles? V6 = short, Volcano = long
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
V6
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Okay so: first hot tighten the extender, then hot tighten the nozzle.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
That nozzle thread is covered in plastic You gotta clean all that off Plus inside the adapter
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
I will also take a new one How can I do this (Will do this tomorrow and take both new
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Heat it up to ~100-150 ish, then try and peel it off with tweezers as much as possible When tightening these you need to use ~2Nm force.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay Okay It’s now in
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
And now the new nozzle How much nm for the nozzle
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
doesn't look right, looks the same as before, but the threads were clean so i guess it's good enough. same And it's heated to 270 degrees here? When you tighten it?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay back in Both with 2Nm Yes
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Aight 👍 then try again
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Now the filament
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
If there's still holes, time to disassemble the hotend
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Yes will now check the tension then will make a test print again So filament in and pull out while thigten Till the extruder is spinning or ? Now I have 0.5mm less tension (the length of the screw which is outside bevore 10.5 now 11mm) Will start the test now @miklschmidt so nothing changed
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Time to tear down the hotend and find the problem.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Here I go down with speed to 3mm/s cubic But also the holes
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Yeah your hotend is broken
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Or your extruder, but we already ruled out the common extruder issues.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay at the hot end what can be broken here ? I will test now toolhead number one with same file
miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
your heat break Or your missing the PTFE tube between the extruder and hotend etc etc.. things like that Start disassembling
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay print now with toolhead 0 and if this works then yes if it don’t works too then I have to disassemble both 🙃
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay same on toolhead 0
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt4w ago
Well that makes me question everything
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Okay I don’t know what I can do now … Haha
tg73
tg734w ago
Test again with different filament. Preferably something from a quality brand like prusament. Not the same brand and colour as you've been using in case it's from the same batch.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Yes will test this Normally this is a industrial manufacturer (CR3D from Germany) Maybe the extruder gets too hot ? I have 55 degrees in my chamber the hole day
VisualTech48
VisualTech484w ago
@03Julian04 What filament is exactly that? Is it perhaps a composite? Like CF?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
No at first it was ABS and now ASA X both from CR3D
VisualTech48
VisualTech484w ago
WHat pops on my mind, is your filament path. What is your PTFE tubing like and what is the actual PTFE you are using?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
I use this from ratrig which came with the vc4
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
This is PETG from Extruder and this have no holes or anything
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VisualTech48
VisualTech484w ago
Could be theat a lot of friction is in the tub ewith the other material I personally use 4OD 2.5ID
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
I also tested to feed the asa to the extruder directly But it seems that the temperature are different
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Same material different printer the right one is much Moore shiny like PETG should be I will now print a temptower to see where it gets shiny I am very curious how much temperature is needed here
tg73
tg734w ago
Sounds good. It varies a lot even by different colours. I recently tuned up some old Prusa (not Prusament) transparent brown PETG. 85% flow/extrusion multiplier, 0.04525 PA, 230 first layer 255 the rest to suit Prusaslicer 0.2 QUALITY VC4 HYBRID profile. The flow and PA are very different to other PETG I have. The 1st vs other layer temp difference is often needed due to the 1st layer printing a lot slower.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Yes I tune every filament on every printer new only the temperature is what I take and maybe change 5 degrees How much difference do you have with your temperatures between the vc4 and other printers
tg73
tg734w ago
I think Prusa's own profile for the petg I mentioned has 230c, compared to my 255c on vc4. First layer temp was similar though, it's just for the other layers due to the huge speed difference. Also a traditional temp tower will be misleading because it has small layers and prints slow. I dialed in by watching fast solid infill (eg solid bottom layers except the first layer). At lower temps it looks matt or a bit scuffed. I increased temp until the glossy look appears. Note that printing fast and hot will show little mercy for damp filament. If you get a lot of stringing etc, try drying (more).
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
But even with this slow speed 255 degrees is matte and I can print with 280 degrees and looks still perfect 🤔 can this be true ? I have a hardened nozzle (I tell because I think these need more temperature but so much More ? ) on Prusa xl with hardened and bambulab with hardned I print with 255
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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VisualTech48
VisualTech484w ago
Did you actually change the temp?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
Yes it was automatically over orca slicer
03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP4w ago
From top first layer to holes on top layer @Helge Keck @miklschmidt are anyone at the Formnext ? I found the mistake… It was the nozzle. Yes I changed and tried also a new one but not another type I used an hardened nozzle. Now with an silicone carbide nozzle from phaetus I have no problems anymore. (The hardened was also from phaetus)
miklschmidt
miklschmidt3w ago
Damn how annoying... We damn near tried everything and then it's all the god damn nozzles. sigh... Phaetus.. Glad you figure it out though, that was a tough one
03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
Oh yeah … now I am with abs at 94% 😁 @miklschmidt okay I don’t solve the problem Don’t know why but now it only happens after a long print
03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
This was a test bevor the print without changing anything even the model is the same only not cutted
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
Hello everybody ( @tg73 @miklschmidt @VisualTech48 @Helge Keck ) till now I don’t get any solution for this Tested very much Tested also with PETG from extruder and there is the issue too
03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
This was yesterday with 1.017 flow
03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
Today with 1.017 flow (the top one)
03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
Yesterday with 0.974 flow
03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
Today with 0.974 flow
03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
Here in the microscope you can see the layers behind the top layers So definitely no Mountain
tg73
tg733w ago
Are you seeing the same issue with both toolheads? And are both toolheads configured the same?
tg73
tg733w ago
If you have not done this, please do it: https://youtu.be/8vf_gY5Qg2o?si=VRQ8N4qwH84xCs6g
OrbiterProjects
YouTube
Orbiter v2.0 filament path adjustment guide
Orbiter v2.0 filament path adjustment guide. In case you have received your sample with the filament path misaligned and following this video guide you do not succeed with the alignment please contact your local reseller for assistance or get in contact with me over our official Facebook page, we will help you as best as we can or send replacem...
03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
Yes You mean in the printer cfg ? Yes its the same Did this already
tg73
tg733w ago
Also the physicial configuration - nozzle etc?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
Yes everything the same Do you have an Idex v4 ?
tg73
tg733w ago
I have hybrid VC4 500 (fully operative) and an IDEX VC4 300 (pending commissioning, I've been too busy). What are you thinking?
VisualTech48
VisualTech483w ago
I've ordered the new 2.5 orbiters and will report back. Even though both of my orbiters are okey they have too much wiggle in the idler spur gear. (not the one you can adjust) Next up is testing if @03Julian04 This happens with a direct deposit to the extruder, which means I recommend testing with the rolls being on top so there is almost 0 restriction to the orbiter when it prints. Could be friction related as well.
tg73
tg733w ago
Can you provide some wider views like this but showing 2-4 times as much of the print surface. And a few more examples, and a few with the print tilted a bit so it's not dead straight on to the lens.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
Tested this also I feed the filament directly to the orbiter by hand but no changes
03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
you mean like this
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP3w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
@Helge Keck @tg73 @miklschmidt What are the known problems of the rapido uhf ? I don’t know what else it could be. Maybe temperatures varied while printing but the sensor doesn’t measured them I think I checked everything else
tg73
tg732w ago
In the absence of any further conventional troubleshooting steps, I suggest the following which are long shots: 1. Replace the silicone sock if you still have it removed. Run PID tuning on the hotend. 2. Reverse the hotend fan (ie, unscrew it, and flip it over so the label is facing forwards). Do some test prints and report back. Note that generally running with the fan reversed is not advised as it may lead to heat creep jams. The reason for trying this is to eliminate one other potential source of gantry bowing. It's also easy to try. It will most likely have no effect. Return the fan to the stock direction after the tests. 3. Remove your belts and run them through this guide thingy in various pairings (preferably print the guide thingy on a known-good printer, normal PLA works well). This should reveal some kinds of manufacturing defect in the belts that affect tooth pitch or profile. A pair of belts should move quite freely through the guide. If they bind at any point, this indicates a defective belt. Defective gates belts are very rare, but they do happen - I had this issue on my Prusa XL, and it was the first time Prusa had seen the problem (Prusa forum post detailing my diagnostics linked). https://www.printables.com/model/931011-gt2-timing-belt-equal-length-checker-and-cutting-h https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-hardware-firmware-and-software-help/significant-distortion-on-first-layer-skew-straight-lines-print-wonky/
Printables.com
GT2 timing belt equal length checker and cutting helper by tg73 | D...
A little tool to keep two lengths of GT2 timing belt aligned to help cut exactly in half or match an existing length. | Download free 3D printable STL models
Original Prusa 3D Printers
Significant distortion on first layer - skew, straight lines...
I've made a test project which extrudes a single line to-and-fro, like this: I print it, then scan the finished (single layer) print in a (high quali...
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Ah you mean that one belt is thicker then the other or what should I exactly test with this test
tg73
tg732w ago
Test (3) helps detect belts being too thick, or eg the valleys between teeth being too shallow, or the spacing between teeth being wrong. The expectation is that the defect fluctuates over the length of the belt, so it's very unlikely that two defective sections will cancel eachother out. When I run my defective XL belts through the guide, they move freeley except for some regions where it becomes impossible to pull them through.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Your Prusa post looks like my layers
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Ah okay I will test this
tg73
tg732w ago
It's a royal pain to remove the belts to check, and it's very rare, which is why I didn't mention this before.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes
tg73
tg732w ago
If you have some other lengths of gates GT2 you can check against those too.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
But I am looking for the reason since 3 weeks No I don’t have others here So I will test everything And also I don’t have any other ideas I am thinking of to buy the dragon uhf hotend to test it with this one
tg73
tg732w ago
Ok, so trying different pairings against each other should be good enough. The hybrid belt was almost certainly cut from a different roll of belt than the xy belts (by RR).
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Ah okay will Check the 4 belts across
tg73
tg732w ago
I'd leave changing the hotend until later. You see the same problem with 2 toolheads on the same motion system. You've thoroughly checked both toolheads. Either you have terrible luck with both toolheads, or a systematic assembly issue yourself, or it's not the toolheads causing the problem. And at this point, I would want to rule out the motion system.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Another thing Here I got overextension with 0.963 flow 2 days before with 0.963 I have underextrusion
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tg73
tg732w ago
Did I see that you're running a ti tube?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes
tg73
tg732w ago
Did you do those prints with the silicone sock installed or not?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes Is installed Just take it off bevor 1 week or so only for 2 prints But did the lid tuning with the silicon sock on it
tg73
tg732w ago
What does the plate of parts for those prints look like? And remind me what size this printer is? And what nozzle temp, bed temp and chamber temp?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
500
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Silicon carbide nozzle from Phaetus 0.4 ABS 240 degrees nozzle 105 bed 50 degrees chamber
tg73
tg732w ago
I mean, what's the layout on the build plate. Screenshot from the slicer would show it.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Ah wait
tg73
tg732w ago
To be clear, these questions I'm asking about the prints are not related to the belt checking. That's a separate thing. You should focus on the belts first. These other questions are related to the top layer inconsistency from one day to the next.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
You mean this right ?
tg73
tg732w ago
Yes. So just one part in the middle of the bed, not 10 at once or anything like that?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
No both one and also 4 or 5 at one time These were printed in one print
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
This one was printed alone (cut the model in the height)
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
This one was 100% same settings but not cutted
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Why 🥲 is there so much difference
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
@tg73 do you know why I have in the right front corner more space to the wall then in the back
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tg73
tg732w ago
Have you checked the belts yet? Can you do that first. XY distortion cold be a factor.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes I think the belts are the reason for this because if I print with 1500acc the gap is gone But at what should I set the belts up ? I mean I had mzv with 6-7k acc but the print looks like this with 4K acc 🤯
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes will do Belts okay but not tested the reversed fan But I don’t want to test this because the fan live is going down so this is no solution for me
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes its overflow but you can see now really good the inconsistently
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Same on perfect flow Make the max flow test and don’t have problems till 35mm/s2 And this print is with 25 max flow @miklschmidt @Helge Keck maybe you have some ideas ? Sorry that I tag you again but I don’t find any solution I have ordered the dragon UHF hotend to test it with this one But till then do you have any ideas anymore
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
Sorry man, i'm all out. Did you take the hotends apart like i suggested, haven't seen any pics at least?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes 3 times Changed also the nozzle 3 times and the uhf adapter
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2w ago
have you ever tried to print with more temp?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes I was at 260 degrees but it was too shiny for abs
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2w ago
imo this isnt underextruding, its inconsistent extruding
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
But yes I tested Yes
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2w ago
imo 260 is not too much for abs, i print it with 265
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes normally (on Prusa and Bambu) I print with 275 but because of the long melting zone of the hotend I had to go down
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2w ago
if its a rapido 2, then you wont have the 260 at the nozzle, you have it on top of the meltzone i woudl just try to print it once with 270 for example
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes rapido 2 Okay I will give it a try
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2w ago
i would also change the nozzle, just to rule it out
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes did this 3 times Have tested normal Brazz Hardened (with 290 degrees then) And at the moment silicon carbide All from phaetus And the optical. Indicator that it is way to shiny what about this I mean I will try it haha but if its working then what about this 😁
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2w ago
who says abs needs to be matte
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
No not Matt
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2w ago
totally possible the brand you use is supposed to look shiny
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
But not as shiny as PETG Print this brand also on Prusa and Bambu and if I compare the optical then the 245 are the same optical result But yeah I will test it and write in 1 hour back 👍
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2w ago
i would even say this is overextruded
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
This is the right value But I just want to try 94% Flow is this
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
This is printed with 270 degrees Same problem
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
Can you please show me what all the parts look like then, we need to make sure there's no subtle damage. I'm not talking about the toolhead, but disassembling the rapido itself into all it's components so we can inspect it for faults. It could be something dumb like the heatbreak not being properly secured in the heatsink
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes I will make this later The wierd thing is that it is on both heads … Will send photos later
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
@03Julian04 Can you run this? Print a 200x50 cube That has 5 top layers and then change flow From 100, all the way to 80 In the Mainsail/Fluidd while its printing And mark each with a marker when you do the change. Go even 70 if need be Then after than Jump to 110 and go to 130 By jump I mean in increments of 10 So 100, then 90 and let it print for some time Then 80 Then 70 Then 110 120 130 And then post results
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Okay will do this tomorrow have disasambled at the moment
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
No worries. YOu should have a nice strip, that tells you a lot. This is how I calibrate my flow On any new filament nowadays.
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
It's not uncommon that the rapido's need to be properly reassembled out of the box. Wouldn't be the first time. He's done it quite a lot in this thread, the results are pseudo-random and doesn't seem to be speed related either.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
I have already disasambled everything from the temperatursensor over the heater to the cooling zone of the rapido but yeah
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2w ago
i wouldnt be surprised if you ahve a small red plastik part in the filament path
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
But I will send you pictures later Why red ?🤔
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
Yeah okay, i just wanted to make sure i couldn't spot something weird, because imo we've tried everything at this point, except that.
Helge Keck
Helge Keck2w ago
a small red plastic ring
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Yes but this sill check for consistency, as well. If he runs for example 20 lines for each flow If they have the wavenies even on low/high flow Either his extruder or rapido is f*
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Don’t saw this last time but also I don’t looked for something
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
i've gone back and forth to this conclusion multiple times in this thread 😂
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
I think I can say the extruder is okay because I change to an orbiter that works on a v minion
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
i've seen picks of the extruder and gears everything looks normal.
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Okey then your Rapido is f 😄
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
Rapidos
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Could be you overtighten the rapido heatbrake and bent the thing?
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
it happens on both toolheads
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Of f What about extruder power? But if he tried another orbiter
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
also checked and verified
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
THat wouldn't be. So rapido it is?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
I don’t know 100% but don’t know what else it could be
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
we don't know. He couldn't find anything when he disassembled it the last time. yeah same
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
If he overtighen it could be the heatbrake middle part no? I've seen it taper if you torque too much
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Now I have ordered two dragon uhf but to build this up It needs more changes than I thought before have them
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
I'm sorry you're struggling so much @03Julian04. Tbf this is quite a unicorn situation, unfortunately not in a good way 😂
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Why not rapido aces? They seem to be nice and their heatbrake is solid af. What about PTFE tube that feeds between the extuder and the rapido?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Don’t know I only new a person how have the dragon with the same filament I am using so I thought if he have the same I can compare Tested and changed from the original to a 2.5 and then to a 3 inner diameter And if I open the orbiter I have zero resistance till the rapido comes
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Hm, waht, 3 ID for the inbetween?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
@miklschmidt Correct me if I'm insane, but inbetween should be tighter like 2 So it tapers correctly into the heatbrake. What about pressure buildup, printing too cold perhaps?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Tested printing only 0.4 width and testet from 230 to 275 degrees
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
DId you try the 2ID tubing perhaps? By hand if you push the filament does it come out nice? If you apply the same pressure?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Yes same result Yes What do you mean
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
This was max flow test from 25 to 35
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
Remove the orbiter, cut 100mm of filament and push it by hand through the rapido when its hot
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
And then
VisualTech48
VisualTech482w ago
See if it the line goes straight down Or if it goes sideways etc. Maybe its not keeping up the temp as promised. Worse luck would be bad ceramic heaters. But I have no idea how to test it
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
This is what I think
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
correct this is a good test
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
@miklschmidt @VisualTech48 @Helge Keck what do you think how much temperature do I have here ? It is a dragon UHF The reason for the question is what material do I need to print this off ?
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
The reason for the question is what material do I need to print this off ?
ABS/ASA should be fine.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Although there is no space between the printed part and the sock
miklschmidt
miklschmidt2w ago
It is a little tight and i would've preferred the sock to be below the part, but should be OK.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
Okay the parts are printing now and tomorrow I will test it @Helge Keck @miklschmidt @VisualTech48 So now with the dragon hotend the same result so the hotend should also be fine What I saw now is that if the head prints in 45 angle it looks more inconsistent then in 135 angle
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
The down one are in 45 and the upper in 135 Maybe the x axis have an twist or is not straight The head it self I think can’t be the problem because I have it on both heads
03Julian04
03Julian04OP2w ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
Same model just the next layer @miklschmidt @Helge Keck can I set the z microsteps back to 64 or should I let them at 16 (there was a Problem with accuracy while making the beacon contact compensation that’s why I turn them down to 16)
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
You can try 64 won't change your prints though
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
I maybe found the issue I have changed the x tube I corrected with captontape the bow of the tube but I don’t make a new beacon calibration after this so I have the false x twist data
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
omg So you were using a wrong contact mesh this entire time?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
No not a wrong contact mesh but the wrong of this
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
that is essential what the contact mesh is, just with more points this doesn't do anything in itself, it's just testing to see whether you may need scan compensation or not. rerunning this does nothing.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
Ah okay 🤔 so then this is not the problem
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
nope
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
I took the belts out and in again to check they are okay Also lubed the x axis again and maybe this helped 🤷🏽‍♂️ But I am still testing But this was the print that shows always the error but at this time not
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
Did you just run BEACON_MEASURE_GANTRY_TWIST or did you run BEACON_RATOS_CALIBRATE ? The former does nothing, the latter does a lot. could have been a belt thing.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
I run the beacon_ratos_calibrate again yesterday after take the belts out Will see how the next tests came out I will update here the results What do you mean with the latter ? If this all doesn’t help i think I will reset the complete ratos Maybe I have anywhere a false value
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
BEACON_MEASURE_GANTRY_TWIST doesn't change anything. BEACON_RATOS_CALIBRATE changes a lot.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
Okay it is not solved
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
Could this be a issue ? I mean it is perfectly easy in the middle and the back end only in the front it is stopping
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
uh yes your rails are binding good god your tension is horribly out of tune Did you skip the tension graphs and IS calibration completely? Gantry is skewed
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
No I had mzv
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
You took out your belts multiple times everytime you mess with belts you need to run the graphs again Hopefully the binding is just because your tension is all messed up
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
You think I run them to often ?
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
But please go through this: https://docs.ratrig.com/commissioning-guides/v-core-4#belt-tension No i think you don't run them enough
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
This is perfectly aligned Also the belts were good with mzv Booth belts the same hz
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
No it's definitely not The end of your video shows how it's not aligned That's not how you check even tension you need to run the belt tension graph line up the peaks and amplitudes it's all in the guide Go through the guide carefully
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
I did them all I will send a new video where you can see it is perfectly aligned
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
It's not weird at all you're getting inconsistent prints when your tension is so messed up, the binding causes all sorts of fun problems
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
What tension do you mean ? In the video I haven’t installed the belts
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
do it again Oooooooh I did not notice that
miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
Well then we're back to
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
Do this without the belts. loosen the screws on your X-Y joiners tighten them down while the gantry is square Then add the belts And then you need to redo your tension graphs (because you will have overcompensated for the mechanical skew)
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
Yes I mean this I will do this all again to be 1000% sure What do you mean with overcompensated ?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
@miklschmidt how is this possible if I had the same hz on left as on right ?
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
@miklschmidt why do I got this Normally on this strength of the belts I have mzv (on t1 I have mzv with the same thightening)
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miklschmidt
miklschmidt7d ago
Who told you to tune with a spectrometer? it's useless Full of issues here For starters, your belts are not the same length (from attachment point to attachment point, teeth inside grabbers don't count) It looks like it's way overtightened too, but it's hard to tell from the noise, could just be crazy binding in the Y rails. This explains all your problems though.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
I am working with a trummeter They move really free
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
This is without the belts
VisualTech48
VisualTech487d ago
Left and right without the belts don't matter. Because the belts skew the geo You can bind you rail easily by hand. While with belts it keep the tension and keeps it square
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
Okay I will check the frame again if there is everything 100% 90 degrees
VisualTech48
VisualTech487d ago
Just mesure diagonally. ANd then when you put the belts they will pull it correctly if its the same lenght.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
You mean here ?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
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VisualTech48
VisualTech487d ago
Basicly yeah
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
There I have a difference of 2mm
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
This is a Precision hair angle
VisualTech48
VisualTech487d ago
0.2 is a kinda in that range of perhaps you should fix it. But I'm no expert there. @miklschmidt Can you chime in here?
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
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03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
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VisualTech48
VisualTech487d ago
Yeah that is not ideal in my opinion at least.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
And also look here https://discord.com/channels/582187371529764864/1314714986664296518 Maybe the ti tube is a little bit too long and it pressure against the rails
VisualTech48
VisualTech487d ago
Yeah but you could've adjusted the printed parts to be a bit depper for that But this kind ahole on the frame is not ideal square wise. THat is why you usually wanna get that solid Before even going to everything else.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
What do you mean
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
I think I order this and adjust the complete frame again
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VisualTech48
VisualTech487d ago
You can all do it by hand really. No need for a 134 euro bracket. You just need a flat surface where you will assemble it
03Julian04
03Julian04OP7d ago
Yes I thought so haha but the first time it doesn’t work like we see 😂
VisualTech48
VisualTech487d ago
😄 Perhaps you rushed it at the end and gg
03Julian04
03Julian04OP6d ago
Maybe haha I will check this out @miklschmidt what do you say to these things ? (That the printer is not 100% in 90 degrees ) Can this be the reason for those printing errors ?
miklschmidt
miklschmidt5d ago
Can this be the reason for those printing errors ?
It's not directly the cause, but it's definitely contributing, your rails are not parallel, your toolhead should not move forward on it's own, that's very bad.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP5d ago
No its only moving forward alone just because of the ptfe and the cables which are pressing against the top cover
miklschmidt
miklschmidt5d ago
Ok, then move on to graphs. If you struggle getting them right, consider squaring the frame better.
03Julian04
03Julian04OP5d ago
Okay will check if I found time in December I have to make a move to a new home I will write back if I found the time
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