Hi everyone, I found that when flying the H145 the collective should be allowed to operate without t

Hi everyone, I found that when flying the H145 the collective should be allowed to operate without the trim release being pressed. It seems from what I've been told by an H145 engineer that you are able to manually override without the use of the trim release and that the more you pull the harder it gets because it's a spring that is getting twisted, when you let go it will automatically go back to the previous position. What settings would I need to dial in to emulate this both in the VP Config and TelemFFB?

HH145Rotor-Sims Hi everyone, I found that when flying the H145 the collective should be allowed ...

Number481•12/27/24, 2:09 AM

Start here in the manual and let me know what further questions you have.

Google Docs

VPforce Rhino Manual

VPforce RHINO FFB User Manual Version 0.81 (WIP) Table of Contents 1. Welcome 1 2. Getting Started 3 2.1. Technical Specifications 4 2.2. Physical Setup 5 2.2.1. The VKB Adapter 6 2.2.2. The WinWing Adapter 6 2.2.3. The RHINO Throw Limiter Adapters 7 2.3. Initial Connection and Updating ...

HH145Rotor-Sims Hi everyone, I found that when flying the H145 the collective should be allowed ...

milliganjr•12/27/24, 2:42 AM

The collective essentially replicates the cyclic is one axis. With trim release pressed it will be dampened but easy to move. When released the new center will be updated. You will have a spring force when pushing or pulling through the trimmed position and if you release pressure it will return to the previous position. The collective and cyclic should never be stiff, even with upper modes engaged.

Number481•12/27/24, 2:46 AM

the way the collective is modeled, it requires TR to manipulate. That was my understanding from @exil35 when I was developing the code initially.

NNumber481 Start [here in the manual](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YL5DLkiTxlaNx_zKH...

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 2:47 AM

I've read through manual once again but I'm not finding the answer. What is see is "the trim release is required to operate the collective" I do not see any information about overpowering it without the use of the trim release button.
I'm also confused as to weather the force settings should be set in the VP Configurator or be zeroed out in vp Configuration and configured in telemffb with overrides?

NNumber481 the way the collective is modeled, it requires TR to manipulate. That was my un...

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 2:50 AM

When I spoke to the engineer who works on the real H145 and an H145 pilot they both confirmed if needed you can operate the collective without the use of the trim release. You can pull it manually with about 8nm force but the more you pull the tighter it gets because you are pulling against a spring. You are able to do this in case the trim release fails

HH145Rotor-Sims When I spoke to the engineer who works on the real H145 and an H145 pilot they b...

Number481•12/27/24, 2:55 AM

I don't doubt you, and it makes logical sense. It's not implemented that way today though. Shouldn't be too hard to fix but will require a TelemFFB update.

re: your other question... there are no override effect settings (damper, friction, etc) you can set in TelemFFB that you can't also set in configurator. All the overrides in TelemFFB are there for convenience so you don't necessarily need separate configurator profiles per aircraft.

NNumber481 I don't doubt you, and it makes logical sense. It's not implemented that way to...

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 3:00 AM

Someone on my YT channel noticed in my vid I couldn't move it and said you are supposed to. This lead me asking the pilot and engineer I know and they confirmed. I was looking in the settings and was trying to figure out what I could do but couldn't find a solution which lead me here.

.

On the other question. Thank you for the clarification. I only fly the H145 so I'm not switching profiles so I imagine I don't need to use any overrides in telemffb since everything is stored in my controller via the settings I did in the vp config. Just got my cyclic put together so very excited to get that setup tomorrow.

HH145Rotor-Sims Someone on my YT channel noticed in my vid I couldn't move it and said you are s...

Number481•12/27/24, 3:16 AM

the only exception to the overrides being required are if you are using the low hydraulic pressure effect. But that is still a very rough feature (and Im not sure it will work with the 145 today)

NNumber481 the only exception to the overrides being required are if you are using the low ...

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 3:25 AM

I don't have the low HYD enabled but I know how it's supposed to work. Similar to losing power steering in a car lol.

HH145Rotor-Sims Someone on my YT channel noticed in my vid I couldn't move it and said you are s...

Number481•12/27/24, 3:48 AM

I can send you a test build with this implemented. However, if ALT mode is engaged (

L:H145_SDK_AFCS_MODE_COLLECTIVE = 1

L:H145_SDK_AFCS_MODE_COLLECTIVE = 1

), the helicopter itself ignores the collective input unless TR is pressed. HPG would need to fix that if it is incorrect.

NNumber481 I can send you a test build with this implemented. However, if ALT mode is enga...

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 3:50 AM

This would be good if it can be made to work because then I can make a video that shows the amazing support from the VP community. I've been trying to get as many people as possible to know more about Walmis and the amazing work he and everyone is doing.

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 3:51 AM

One of my goals is get many more people using VP force motors and software

Mike T•12/27/24, 11:12 AM

I’ve flown quite a few 4-axis AFCS aircraft over past 20 yrs and they all behave very much the same……..the collective must be able to be moved and used without pressing in the FTR trigger regardless if upper pitch modes engaged or not…….this is a safety requirement for certification. Yes your arm will get tired so of course normally you use the FT system. Also these acft the main rotor (and T/R) are all dual independent hydraulic powered. Has to be…….if you lose all hydraulics to the MR you can kiss your backside goodbye……forever! So if you lose one hyd side you can continue to use the controls as if no hyd was lost……normally so. Now there are some heli that have only one hyd side to TR and so if one hyd system that powers the TR is lost then you can get real heavy pedal control……but these acft are usually 3 axis not 4 axis AFCS.
So would be nice to have this capability to manually move collective with FT engaged……just to make it realistic …..

MMike T I’ve flown quite a few 4-axis AFCS aircraft over past 20 yrs and they all behave...

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 3:21 PM

Hi Mike, thanks for your insight on this. @Number481 is working on code in telemffb to have this feature and is currently testing it.

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 5:49 PM

Just got the cyclic up and running but I'm having an issue. I press the force trim reset and then the stick about 5 seconds later starts to fall forward and it's applying force. All I have on in my VP configurator is global master gain set to 90% spring 90%, effects are spring checked, adaptive re-centering both x y at 90%. In telem FFB I have force trim and force trim reset enables and assigned via loop back and it works. I have axis control on as well as axis control trim following. Not sure what's happening

smitty•12/27/24, 5:57 PM

ive never used force trim reset, i dont even have it bound. does a real heli have a reset?

Ssmitty ive never used force trim reset, i dont even have it bound. does a real heli ha...

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 5:58 PM

Yes the H145 has a force trim reset.

smitty•12/27/24, 6:00 PM

beats me, try these scenarios - 1. bound only in-game with hpg 2. bound only in telemffb. 3. bound both places

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 6:01 PM

Basically what is is when I'm sitting here in the heli and hit the trim release and put it to a new position it starts to fall forward

smitty•12/27/24, 6:02 PM

do you have some nonzero value for constant/ friction in configurator?

Ssmitty do you have some nonzero value for constant/ friction in configurator?

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 6:02 PM

Hmm that might be it

smitty•12/27/24, 6:05 PM

shouldnt need much, try starting with this

Ssmitty shouldnt need much, try starting with this

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 6:05 PM

What do you have in effects?

smitty•12/27/24, 6:06 PM

smitty•12/27/24, 6:07 PM

but those are for when the game isn't doing anything. the spring/displacement mapping applies in game though.

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 6:16 PM

smitty•12/27/24, 6:17 PM

whoa thats really weird.

smitty•12/27/24, 6:18 PM

there was a debug mode on the mfd for the AFCS but i forget how to show it.

smitty•12/27/24, 6:19 PM

i think number481 and/or exil will need to help on this one

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 6:20 PM

That's in VMS/Syst/ that shows the whole afcs and if you go to control it shoes the flight controls

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 6:21 PM

HH145Rotor-Sims Click to see attachment

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:26 PM

Does this only happen in the sim? Or also without the sim on? And also did you do the balance spring setup to compensate for the weight of the grip and extension?

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:29 PM

In your video posted on the diy section I noticed that your balance spring setting is disabled. You want to disable all effects and enable the balance spring effect. Then modify the force values to where you can move the stick in any position and it will stay in that position.

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:29 PM

Once that's done then reenable all your settings.

Ff14billy In your video posted on the diy section I noticed that your balance spring setti...

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 7:33 PM

Hi Billy, so the balance spring isn't supposed to snap it back to center?

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 7:33 PM

I enabled the balance spring and have it set to 50% and when I push and let go it tries to go back to center

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:34 PM

The balance spring has 4 values. Basically it applies a force opposite to where it's put away from the center. You don't need much force on it. Just little by little adjust until your stick doesn't spring back

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:35 PM

It's a must for extensions and heavy sticks

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:35 PM

Just make sure all other effects are disabled as you tweak it until you find the right settings

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:36 PM

50% is too much for sure specially with the powerful 86 motors.

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 7:37 PM

I have all effects off

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:38 PM

Start with the Y axis to the front. Then find what setting will allow the stick to stay put when you move it forward.

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:39 PM

Then Y axis to the back. Then X axis left and right. Then tweak when doing diagonals.

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 7:43 PM

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:45 PM

Yes it won't be perfect but it will be good enough. Then when you add all other effects specially friction. It will be even better.

Ff14billy Yes it won't be perfect but it will be good enough. Then when you add all other ...

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 7:46 PM

But in telemffb there are model overrides in the settings. Would I check those on or leave off. Seems to have some important values there

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:47 PM

As long as it doesn't override the balance spring

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:47 PM

That needs to be set all the time.

f14billy•12/27/24, 7:48 PM

With the values you have tweaked in the configurator.

H145Rotor-SimsOP•12/27/24, 7:50 PM

It has a cyclic spring gain which I have checked on at 100%. Currently I'm moving the stick with the spring on and force trim and it appears to stay in place without running the sim

Hi everyone, I found that when flying the H145 the collective should be allowed to operate without t

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