Do verbose hyperlinks help SEO?
If I have a heading like...
Macintosh Security
...then do I need to repeat myself for subordinate hyperlinks?
Like...
- Macintosh OS Security
- Macintosh Application Security
To be clear, I am really asking about what makes good SEMANTIC HTML more than "SEO".
85 Replies
to be honest ... nobody knows
seo is, in short, "change this, wait a month, check if it improved"
and you hope that google's black box is happy with you
but good links are good for humans
I have been taught to never have a hyperlink like "here"
If I have this structure....
Application Security
- Browsers
- Firefox
Then is "Firefox" top vague for users and for search engines?
Or do I need to carry down the parent information and repeat myseleft like...
Application Security
- Browser Security
- Firefox Application Security
depends on how you implement it
What's that mean?
if you implement with headers or not
This isn't an implementation question. I am asking what is in my best interest as far as search engines are concerned.
and depends on how google feels about it
it's a "try it"
the top example i would implement if i used headers for the navigation
I don't think a normal person needs to see "Security" 3 times in a row, HOWEVER, I can see the argument that a hyperlink labeled "Firefox" in and of itself means nothing. (It is like the cursed "here" hyperlink)
the bottom one if you implement it in any other way
Because this is for a navigation tree, I assume that I'd want to use H1, H2, H3, etc as I drill down, right?
not h1 and h2
and the "i'd want" is "google might or might not be happy about it"
again: try it
google is a black box
So if my website name was H1, and then for simplicity 'Application Security" = H2 and "Brosers" = H3 and "Firefox" = H4 then you are saying that should make Google happy?
You always ask questions that are almost impossible to answer
if you implement with headers, i would have h2 as "menu"
If I had easy questions then I wouldn't be here... 😉
this is an unanswerable question because you're asking about things that google actively lies about
There would be more levels, but I was just trying to repeat what I think you were saying
yes, it's something like that
that's what i meant with "implement it with headers"
The general guideline is 'write for users, not search engines' - so if you think it makes more sense to leave out the parent information so it's more readable for users, do that
precisely
If "Firefox" is a link to a landing page about all things Firefox, then would I want it to have a heading level like H4, or should it be just a regular link?
But then again you could do that and it could be worse than writing for search engines... so like, just try it. I'm not versed enough in seo to give you one or the other. and it depends on your specific situation too
Would you agree that the second example is at best verbose, and at worst "insulting" to end users?
google lies about how they do everything related to the search engine
(Silicon Valley and all corporations LIE!) LOL
that's not it
google is required to lie so nobody can game their system
everything you hear about seo is from people poking the box and it worked, then they spread it as gospel
FWIW, I am doing this 1st for the end user, 2nd to have respectable "Semantic HTML" and 3rd for search engines.
but today, it may be true... tomorrow, it may classify your website below garbage
In simple terms I overthink everything because I hate shit code and shit websites
Just do what you think is the best for end users, and then after the site is up test how they actually behave
I take pride in my work and I want to not annoy end users and be helpful to them
You take too much pride in your work
Not disagreeing
I have big shoes to fill being around you and epic
😉
you're expecting to build a pirate ship to navigate the clear waters of seo success ... but seo is a murky swamp and you have a frying pan
seriously, just do what vince said: build it for your users
what makes sense for your users
Not so much SEO as writing to meet web standards. (Like trying to avoid DIV-itis)
That is why I am taking sooooo long - because I am putting A LOT of effort into thinking what end-users will want
(I haven't even coded in like 8 years, so all of this is foggy to me.)
The company I work at that makes ~400k revenue every 2 weeks on a single project uses a platform that generates thousands of divs a page
dude, be worried about people being able to use the site
I guess I will used Hx in my menu, and links to end "leaf" landing pages (e.g. Firefox) will just be regular hyperlinks
that is perfectly fine
Porn site? Or Salesforce? LMAO
No lol it's a private dashboard application for an insurance company. So SEO not needed but still, guess what I'm getting at is just like, you don't need a perfect site just build and ship
at work, we have a website that has over 1 million unique users a day, and it has 30 in performance on lighthouse
Why do you think I'm taking so long? (Everything I do is for my end customer)
well, because you overthink every detail
Insurance companies == DIV's!!!
im not saying it isn't user-centric - just that you overthink
It's one of many faults that I have
Yea but going back to your initial question, it's really hard for us to say one way or the other, just try to build for the end user and test after you shipped the site and see how it performs
you should watch how it performs anyway
I'm just tired of being poor and a "slave to the grind" and I feel like this is my last shot in life to break out, and so I am purposely OVERTHINKING so I can WOW the hell out of people and hopefully eek out a modest living on my own
people won't care if you use an h1 50 times
they just care if they can use your thingy without a degree
I think in chatting you answered my question. I was asking as much from an HTML standpoint as a design and SEO standpoint. Liek I said, I haven't coded anything since like 2019 or before
Yeah, but since my website is an online newspaper, coming up in search is important.
it is
and you will get there by being good
be more worried about how it works on mobile
FWIW, I think I have FINALLY come up with an architecture/approach for my website that will work for nearly everything AND be scalable. Right now I am mostly slugging out filling my TOMES of information into my template, but I think I got the hardest part done
And I cannot speak for anyoen else, but I really like my design and its minimalistic appraoch, so I am making progress
great: implement that
Well, for the last 2-3 months, I have been building out all of my mobile screens using TextEdit. (Crude, but it works for me.) And everything looks clean and simple in what should mimic yoru average smartphoen screen
As I take all of my research and build out sections like above, occassionally I have questions, but I think I have my design mostly done
Ironically, I haven't thought how this will look on desktop, and I hope my mobile design doesn't break on desktop - which is the OPPOSITE of how most peopel design
(Will probbaly be back shortly to haunt you guys about questions related to that)
that's called "mobile-first"
I'd be happy if my website makes me $4k per month!! 🙂 (I'd settle for $2k per month)
everybody would be happy
They say if you nail mobile-first, then desktop is easy, but because my website is so minimalistic, I fear that myd esktop site will look like a smartphone screen in a sea of white on desktop, but that is an issue for another day
that's something you will need to play with when implementing
I bought like 25 books off eBay on web design
I need to find time to read them before I start coding
I have several that should teach me how to do the whole responsive thing corretly
Plus I need to get back to watching Kevin's YouTube videos
when you try it, you will see you probably won't need most of what you have
What do you mean?
you overspent
you can ask 100 developers how to do something, and you will get 6000 answers
I can't disagree there!!
If you mean the books, they only cost on average $7 per book, so the like $200 I spent was well worth it. I read like 6 over Thanksgiving and most were really good.
I am old-school and prefer paper books first. But obviously Kevin's YT videos are great, and you guys are a big help too
the problem with books is that they are outdated the second they come out
Sorry, hotspot died
Depends on the area... Most principles of mobile-first design, HTML, CSS still apply. (The $$$ I spent on Javascript books was probably foolish, but it was only 2 books.)
Plus, there as some famous books by A Book Apart that I boiught that transcend time when it comes to web design
Plus, there as some famous books by A Book Apart that I boiught that transcend time when it comes to web design
i will be honest: i know next to nothing about design, but i do know that a lot changes in css and javascript
html hasn't seen a new element in quite a while
css has been growing like mad
Like I said, JS was a risky purchase - but for $14, big whoop. I bought them because the hope it would give me a good overview.
CSS is changing, but the fundamentals like selectors and elements and classes, etc are the same.
I would argue books are often better because they cost $$ to publish and no publisher will publish crap - plus they have editors
At any rate, I have one of those tote bags from Walmart filled to the very brim with all of my books, and I will have to dive into them in about a week
A lot of my business revolves around misinformation (and thus Trump) and everyd ay is a shit-show in the news, so it's hard to keep up with news reporting plus trying to architect and code a world-class website, bit here goes! 😎
if the book doesn't have
:has(), it's way too outdatedI forget all that I bought, but it was a whole slew of stuff like...
- HTML5
- CSS3
- Responsive Web Design
- Mobile-First
- Information Architecture
- And like 8-10 other topics that I forget!
hopefully no seo books
you would be better off burning money then
It's rather ironic in this poorly worded thread, but I think SEO is mostly bullshit
I was really asking about semantic HTML and just good web design and web programming
I am of the mindset that - in theory - online companies are mostly rewarded for clean, clear, easy-to-navigate websites with WORLD-CLASS original content
it literally is bs
someone poked the black box on the left and it giggled
then that someone spread the word
others started poking on the left, but that person was already petting the box and handing it candy
but that person kept quiet about it, bumping the rankings and posting other generic pseudo-advice
it's trial and error
You have a stand-up routine! 😉
nah, not at all
So remind me... What are you technical proficiencies?
full stack web dev and desktop app development
but i branch out and do all sorts of things
even played a little with embed programming using circuitpython
Do you know Python?
haven't used in a while, but yes
What is your go-to server-side programming language?
php
Okay
Well, I better get back to work on my IA
Thanks to you and @vince for the help today!
you're welcome