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@Dexter
Note for OP
+solved @user1 @user2... to close the thread when your doubt is solved. Mention the users who helped you solve the doubt. This will be added to their stats.Jisme jyada stable product ban Raha hoga
Vahan delta H controlling hona chahiye
Yaani thermodynamically controlled product me
kyun
Kyunki tumhari reaction ka delta H kya batata hai?
Ki energy release Hui ya absorb
bas bas
Ab vo release kab hogi?
i got it
Alright
Isse dekho answer match hua?
Ngl aisa question nahi kiya maine bhi kabhi
There could be something I'm neglecting
btata agar hua
2 vala S se to match kargya
bakiyon se mai khud confirm ni kar paa raha
P ka 4 and 1
Vaise to 3 bhi hoga
But vaisa option nahi hai
delta s ka kaise dekah
B option aa gaya most likely
haa sahi ha
Delta S kinetic control me lagega
Like say.....
Kaise samjhaun
Ruko I'll phrase myself better
like mene kinetically controlled jese quesn temperature dekhke karein ha, idhar kaise dekhun vo naya ha mereliye
delta s is entropy no?
dekh lo kaha badh rha
kaha nhi
Isn't very simple here
Although I have handwavy explanation
I'll still tell you the rigorous one if I find
Dekho @Prasan
there is a expression no? connecting delta h and delta s
with temp
We have no gibbs energy data
us se kar sakte?
intutively
is the ans b?
yes
lmao
just use cyclic factor
and voila
u get the ans
that ill do in the exam
concept hn vo
abhi puri reasoning
i agree
Intuition se gibbs energy kaise nikaal rahi 😭🙏
vo mujhe bhi chiye
:kekw:
naari kuch bhi kar sakti hai
Haan abhi baat suno
The option in the first reaction
Grignard vaali
In that one the reaction is intramolecular
And the product is a very unstable one
So if you increase the temperature a bit
To kinetic vala thermodynamic me change ho jayega
jitna mera maan hai isko ruk ke smjhne na
utna hi jaruri hai phy karna to mai phy karne jaari, free hoke read kar lungi
The reaction is sensitive to conditions
Rather than energy difference
Is kaaran entropy vaala factor is ruling out here
Okay bua ji 😭👍
wait a sec
intramolecular product is unstable?
4 member ki ring ban rahi hai
That is unstable
acha strain
ok
Yeah
hcvvv
So that way energetically favoured nahi hai
entropy vala ache se smjhado thoda
It's just the intramolecular fashion that's pushing it forward
ykw mai kar leti hu
Ek min ruko
acha jo 1st me product hai
vo temprature senstive hoga right
yea unstable ha bhot
hnn
to agar temprature dependent hai to jo realtion hai delh and dels usme hum kya keh sakte hai ki kyunki temp se kafi fark hoga to uski jo TdelS component hai vo deciding factor hoga gibbs energy ka?
yahi to dubara pucha tha prabhu se, vo chle gye kahi
😭 aare honge
kuch mumbo jumbo draw karke
tab tak phy kar leti hu
konsa chp
electrictiy
bahut piche hu syllabus se
vahi sochra tha
mere sir 5th me hai
humara to AC shuru hogya😭
mai 3rd
bhagwann
itna karte kaise ho?
Haan
khair school nhi haina
school ha
To ghar se call aa gaya tha
school integrated programha hmara
Now where we at?
entropy ka reason
mai regular hu
@Enamine ye batao na
jaata to mai bhi roz hu, school ke 3hr ke baad coaching hoti
school mei hi
topic pe aate ha chodo isko
Haan entropy
So dekho it's like product isn't as stable but still ban Raha hai
What's favouring it?
Energy ke alawa what decreases or increases the delta G of the reaction?
Entropy
hn
Isiliye entropy driven
I know not a very good explanation
I'll read upon this and give a better one
kyunki universe wants more entropy?
kinda makes sense
Yeah that is true but not relevant here I guess
Yahan to unstrained se strained ban gaya
thoda thoda palle padraha ha
ye batao na prabhu
is it? par kyu?
Hmm kinda true
hn vaise iske karan i dont think rxn jyda procced karega
Ye to natural law hai ki entropy badhti hai
Low temperature pe it can kyunki intramolecular hai
yeah kabhi km nai hogi vo to
hn ik
hn vahi temp sensitive
Kyunki dekho intermolecular hoti agar reaction
To do 2 molecules se 1 banta
kafi kam range me hi hoga
But yahan ek se ek bana
well kinda hoti hai kabhi kabhi kuch rxns me
haan sahi baat
hnn
Entropy change 2 se 1 me negative hai
But 1 se 1 me zero hai
Like not exactly
But kind of vaise samajh sakte ho
qualitatively bata raha hun
aur ye
R vala part batana
exact same thoda impossible sound karta hai
Naah naah
I wrote positive galti se
Negative
2 se ek hua na
Disorder to Order
Ek sec bohot upar chala gaya
mai iska bolri
Dobara bhej doge kya
Phone pe scroll karna mushkil hai
Ye still make sense karta hai but negative change nahi sense banata
ye r part me ho kya rha mere to vahi smj nhi ara
same
Ek to pehle R me ho kya raha hai ye dekhun ab mai.......
Kuch bhi reagent likh denge
lmao
par kuch rxns me to hota haina
less moles of product from more moles of reactant
ig isme Ag(OH)2 banega in situ
Delta H ka control
aur vo reaact karega
Vo aa gaya
hn par hota hainaa
Aage soch raha kispe attack karwaun
Haan par fir vahan energy acchi khaasi release hoti hai
silver hai
yea this
Haan bechara kya hi kar lega
silver wants e- (if i am right)
haan vo to hoga
aage ye
1 electron de do ise
attack kispe karenge
Vahi soch raha
bhyi apan aise bolre jaise hi bheek de rhe silver ko 😭
Mere dost ne 24 messages shoot kar diye ek saath pls standby
Shit has gone wrong ruko
woops
silver nucleophile hai to
eaash
pta nahi kaisa quesn ha yar ye
kaha se laa rhe ho prabhu
😭
fiitjee aits
he bhagwan
kal test ha
konsa chp
sbse tagda quesn dekhleta hu socha koi
chp wise nahi ha ye na
wooops dikkat
full test?
yeah
aah yea
tab to
gll
acha kl ke test ka puchre
mujhe laga pdf mein😭
kal chem mein ape, goc
😭
ape...
alc phe
ok
alcohol phenol ether
phy mei gravitatn, thermo, emi
easy hai vo to although mai bas phenol tak aayi hu
thermo is cute, gravi is fun
emi idk
adv ki thermo kbhi kbhi zyada cute hojati
prabhuuu kaha gye
adv maine abhi dekha nhi hai
kuch hua hai shyd unke vaha
hoskta ha
mai abhi mains ka hi kar rhi bas, end me adv karenge
shyd tab neet nikal jaaye
ye sept ke baad aajeya maza to
only quesns ragadne ha
fr
merko bhi tabhi tak karna hai syllabus
bas ho jaaye kisi trh
phy mei to muskil lgra ha fir
although muskil lagra
hn
bio aur chem ho jayega
bio ka to mujhe idea nahi
adha kar lia hai 12th
acha hai
chem me organic ke chaakar me phy nhi hora
aap hcv krlo jb tk prabhu na aye
mai jaara mereko jldi sona kal test ha na
vahi ans check kar rhi
chlo bye
bye
dekhna ha isse?
prabhu ko tag karo
@Enamine sirrr
Mera net nahi hai abhi
😭 oh shi
(Padosi ka wifi chura ke reply kar raha hun)
lmao
Ye konsa tha ruko dekhta hun
Text pe ho paaye to
Are yaar Ag2O vala hai ye to 😭
hn
Chhod diya tha uske baad dekha hi nahi
the delS weird one
Mai actually report bana raha tha apni abhi
Jaise hi uska thoda bohot ho gaya
12-1 baje tak dekhta hun
oh to vo karlo phele
mai to all time awake hu tag kar dena jab bataoge
Yup bata dunga
Bas thoda late ho jayega
hum abahari honge
Jarur jarur
So jaaya karo yaar 😭🙏
soti hu par weird time pe
us bua ji us
us moments
Ab bahar aa hi gaya hun room se to chocolate khaa ke jaaunga 🗣️
😭
Hello
So this C part is actually a reaction called wolff rearrangement
Doesn’t really need that Ag2O
Bas heat kiya to bhi ho jayegi
You’ll get it when I send the mechanism
I’m trying to figure out the role of Ag2O and water here ‘cause there is practically none
@Sephrina @Prasan
That group encircled in blue in the last step
That has migrated to compensate the deficiency
After the carbene lone pair was given to the carbonyl vala carbon
Role of Ag2O
Basically Ag+ though
As ut involved the removal of a gas (nitrogen), so entropy control
Option 1 itna ajib sa kyun h
Kahan pr aisa h bhai where product isn't as stable but still forming
Kaafi baar hota hai tbh
Have you seen enamine formation?
C=O ki bond energy is more than C=N
Still enamine formation occurs as you take away the water continuously
m asking about this question vese but still...lemme think
Isme bhi just 'cause the first reaction is intramolecular
It happens kinetically
Thermodynamic product vo nahi hoga
bhmm that's wht i even see
but ig intramolecular wale logic se kyun dekh rhen h
can't we say angle strain kaafi zyada ho ja rha h
so maybe that way
Haan mai to hone ka reason bol raha hun reaction ke
Angle strain itna hai
Us logic se honi nahi chahiye
But it gets pushed because it's intramolecular
bhmmm
That's what I'm saying
but now what is supposed to be thermodynamically stable product for u btw
The grignard attacking another molecule of this compound
bhmmm i c i c
Although that would depend on how you do the reaction too
'cause the same set of molecules gotta make the grignard
that's what i m even thinking
And the same set of molecules gotta get attacked by another grignard
T or P dono pr depend kr skta h
Mostly temperature but yeah
thnx
Not a problem:)
@Shhh you are in the math server too?
Just noticed
i don't rlly know...m kinda inactive everywhere lol
I used to be active there in the later phase of 12th
Didn't really get much time after that
ic ic...
ketene sounds so cursed
apki formation 😆 jk
Lmao I should've said imine though
Enamine bol diya galti se
I just realised
lmao
koi nhi
its in arndt eister too right
hello ji kisine mera naam pukara
Lmao
th what
eh its a reaction which adds another carbon to an acid
That involves a carbene
did google it yep
Jinka doubt tha vo bhool hi gaye
@Prasan
ye but studies show the R grp migrates before the carbene is formed
ok this was the entropy one
Ohh is it so
Can you send me the reference?
yaar particular posted doubt se alag discussion gen me karo
because :PepeRules:
Okay sorry 😭🙏
vishaal sir 💀 but he probably gets it from clayden/peter sykes
Itne doubt horkhe pta ni chlra konsa hogya konsa nahi😭
lets close this out please?
and stay on point in these doubts
+solved @Enamine
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