I read a good book about the early days of flight simulation with NACA and NASA. They sometimes used

I read a good book about the early days of flight simulation with NACA and NASA. They sometimes used hydraulic FFB sticks and the test pilots absolutely hated them and a few were borderline nervous around them.
The analogue computers driving the hydraulics would sometimes do weird and unexpected things, causing the sticks to bite them in painful areas of their anatomy....

BBikerSid I read a good book about the early days of flight simulation with NACA and NASA....

Richard•6/12/22, 10:16 PM

When I worked in flight simulation they had just transitioned from analogue to digital control loading. It was an absolute marvel of engineering. The basic hardware was the same (hydraulics and strain gauges); but the software that controlled it was written in microcode (into a special modified processor that had writable control store) so it could run at 500hz. That's right - the CPU was modified so that they could write software in microcode.

There was a big emphasis on safety and if anything was out by a very small margin then the controls would disengage. What you have to realise is that when the controls were disengaged (from the hydraulics) the stick would move freely.

Quite often during development (and sometimes during training) you'd be flying along and suddenly the controls would disengage. The noise was very distinctive as the hydraulic pressure was rapidly dumped.

Once when I was working on the Swiss Hawk the controls guy had got his signs inverted; so it was effectively a positive feedback loop. So as he pulled back the force was inverted which moved the stick forwards which increased the force being applied. Net result was being pulled into the HUD assembly. Normally as a force was measured on the strain gauge the software would move the stick in the appropriate direction and it would feel as though you were moving the stick when in fact it was the software that moved the stick.

Woodspeople•6/12/22, 11:30 PM

Those are some pretty neat anecdotes.

sko•6/13/22, 5:02 AM

so which grips are we up to now with implementation?

walmis•6/13/22, 5:05 AM

Virpil T-50CM2, Constellation Alpha, WarBRD tested

walmis•6/13/22, 5:09 AM

@sko2408 Which one do you have?

[

[JGF]Speedtrip•6/13/22, 5:10 AM

Vkb

walmis•6/13/22, 5:19 AM

I have ordered VKB mounting adapters, but for VKB will require the black box to read out the buttons.

Wwalmis Virpil T-50CM2, Constellation Alpha, WarBRD tested

[

[BSD] Ogre•6/13/22, 1:18 PM

Don't forget the Thrustmaster Warthog that I am using - works great as a generic Grip

walmis•6/13/22, 1:18 PM

Yeah, Thrustmaster grips are simple and work fine as Generic ones

BikerSidOP•6/13/22, 1:52 PM

If you would like I could send you a Realsimulator F-18 grip to test

walmis•6/13/22, 2:45 PM

Thanks, but I think that it should also work with the generic profile if it has the thrustmaster interface

Wwalmis @sko2408 Which one do you have?

sko•6/13/22, 4:15 PM

I have a vkb, but I'm selling my entire stick so I'll have to buy a replacement. Problem with virpil is they're out of stock, I guess I can get a thrustmaster, I do like the winwing f16 grip with the extra buttons. The alpha from virpil has alot of options which I like,but out of stock

AndyHill•6/13/22, 4:22 PM

Virpil order times aren't catastrophic if you order out of stock items

AndyHill•6/13/22, 4:22 PM

it took maybe a few weeks for me

Ssko I have a vkb, but I'm selling my entire stick so I'll have to buy a replacement....

[

[JGF]Speedtrip•6/13/22, 4:26 PM

You are replacing your vkb with a virpil stick. Bad choice

[[JGF]Speedtrip You are replacing your vkb with a virpil stick. Bad choice

sko•6/13/22, 4:31 PM

I'm replacing my vkb with this vforce rhino ,but I have to buy a new grip

Ssko I'm replacing my vkb with this vforce rhino ,but I have to buy a new grip

Gator•6/13/22, 5:30 PM

If you are in the US and want a Virpil T-50 I'll sell you mine. Brand new. Only tested on my self built FFB unit with VPForce Motors. I bought it for the direct integration, but like my VKB better so I went back to that.

AndyHill•6/13/22, 7:03 PM

I don't know if I understood correctly, but it should be possible to use vkb stuffs with the rhino, at least in the furure?

GGator If you are in the US and want a Virpil T-50 I'll sell you mine. Brand new. Onl...

sko•6/13/22, 7:16 PM

I'm selling my entire vkb stick and replacing it with the rhino. However, the rhino doesn't come with the grip only the stick. So I'll have to buy a grip for it since I'm selling the entire vkb unit.

AndyHill•6/13/22, 8:24 PM

you should ask walmis, but it should also be possible to use your vkb stick and blackbox, at least at some point in the future

AndyHill•6/13/22, 8:25 PM

if I read him correctly

sko•6/13/22, 8:47 PM

I have enough sticks, no reason to hold onto the vkb if I won't be using itever again, my vkb is brand new I haven't used it since I bought it 3 or so years ago, I've always used the ms ffb2 and just couldn't get away from using it.

Ssko I'm selling my entire vkb stick and replacing it with the rhino. However, the rh...

Gator•6/13/22, 8:47 PM

Yeah, I understand. I just have the VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Grip for sale that I bought to go with my VPForce FFB.

Flashgod_VR•6/14/22, 5:18 AM

just for info how ordering at Virpil works: "Please be aware this is a backorder. Your order will be dispatched when all items are available. "
This usually only takes a week or two.

Flashgod_VR•6/14/22, 5:23 AM

i recently ordered a TM50 and Constellation Alpha. ordered on 14th of may and got it delivered on 23rd of may. (the constellation alpha is the one walmis used to implement support for the rhino)

FFlashgod_VR i recently ordered a TM50 and Constellation Alpha. ordered on 14th of may and go...

walmis•6/14/22, 5:26 AM

Thanks again, I'm really grateful for the investment btw

NITE 107 | Snake•6/14/22, 2:24 PM

Am I going to be the first person to attempt to attach a Virpil VFX onto the Rhino? The F-14 seems like the perfect module for FFB due to how the trim works.

walmis•6/14/22, 2:24 PM

Probably yes. I'll need info from you to implement the VFX extra functionality

walmis•6/14/22, 5:20 PM

VKB adapter PCBs arrived today. Looking good!

BikerSidOP•6/14/22, 6:53 PM

Spitfire simulator report :-
The ED Spitfire is reasonably close, the sim instructor flies DCS himself. He thinks the DCS version is harder to fly than their own flight model.
Takeoff and landing are easier than the DCS Spit - not hugely, but enough to be noticeable. The DCS one bleeds speed more in turns and it's stall is more dramatic.
The seating position is like being sat in a proper chair at a dining table, it's really upright.
The rudder pedals are very close. The cockpits not much wider than my shoulders and I'm not heavily built, god knows how people fitted in them wearing an Irvin jacket
All the controls are heavy, especially the throttle.

BikerSidOP•6/14/22, 6:56 PM

That's about the most scientific I can be, everything was so alien to me that I spent the whole hour right at the limit of what I could process effectively and I didn't have enough brain left over to be analytic.
Stick forces are sort of in the Brunner CLS-E range, if you were using no extension and the highest forces you can program.

BikerSidOP•6/14/22, 6:58 PM

The Brunner can only support that level of force for 'normal' flying, if you were doing A2A with it, then it would start to self limit quite early

Wwalmis VKB adapter PCBs arrived today. Looking good!

Vulkan•6/14/22, 10:00 PM

Would the contacts be user replaceable as VKB contacts are pretty infamous for wearing out. Happened on both of mine

Vulkan•6/14/22, 10:01 PM

Really excited tho as it mean I get to use VKB f14 grip, which if it didn't break within hours of arriving would be my fav stick lol

Vulkan•6/14/22, 10:01 PM

Oh and now the contacts have arrived any idea for price?

sko•6/14/22, 10:34 PM

@walmis will the grip have the ability to be offset( like russian grips) by like 20 degrees for comfort? Instead of straight like the US ones?

C4N4DN•6/14/22, 10:44 PM

@walmis what kind of production times could we expect if I ordered a rhino today?

BBikerSid The Brunner can only support that level of force for 'normal' flying, if you wer...

ExpertNewbie•6/15/22, 1:55 AM

I can attest to this, having owned the Brunner CLS-E. When flying anything that requires you to pull the stick near the limit and hold it there for a length of time, for example WWI/WWII aircraft in a dogfight, there's some kind of protection in the CLS-E base that kicks in and removes the FFB forces, and the stick will go slack. It then takes a few seconds for the base to recover and start working again. It's almost like the base has a stamina bar that needs to recover when depleted. It made the base impossible to use, and it was also a pain in the ass getting a refund from Brunner as well.

VVulkan Would the contacts be user replaceable as VKB contacts are pretty infamous for w...

walmis•6/15/22, 3:41 AM

No problem to source more PCBs, but I imagine tinning a thick layer with solder should do the trick no?

walmis•6/15/22, 5:55 AM

Initial #

faq channel done for the most asked/interesting info.

CC4N4DN @walmis what kind of production times could we expect if I ordered a rhino today...

walmis•6/15/22, 5:57 AM

Hey, 4-6 weeks probably.

Ssko @walmis will the grip have the ability to be offset( like russian grips) by like...

walmis•6/15/22, 5:58 AM

Yes, Virpil grips have a feature, that you can mount it rotated in any way you like.

Trötter•6/15/22, 6:02 AM

New here! I’ve looked through some of the different gimbal designs. I may have missed some, but they all seem to have isolated axes, ie one motor affects x, the other y. Is there support for differential gimbals? Where both motors in the same direction affect one axis, and both motors in opposite directions affect the other?

walmis•6/15/22, 6:04 AM

Hey, I personally didn't see such gimbals. Curious as to any advantages to isolated axis gimbals ? Sounds more complicated

Trötter•6/15/22, 6:16 AM

I think the primary reason is most often some kind of mechanical constraint, I know it is in my intended case. But I would argue that it doesn’t have to be more complicated or complex than isolated axes. The gimbals I’ve seen here are over constrained in the mechanical sense, and seem to require at least one spherical bearing, and quite tight alignment between the bearings to avoid binding up. A series isolated gimbal is probably the simplest design, but mechanically speaking, a differential gimbal can be less complex than the style of parallel isolated gimbals that looks to be the common design here.

Trötter•6/15/22, 6:22 AM

As for the software, yes that needs to be more complex.

walmis•6/15/22, 6:25 AM

I managed to pull off the Rhino gimbal without a spherical bearing, but a couple of regular ones in the center. But yeah tolerances need to be pretty tight.

walmis•6/15/22, 6:26 AM

Do you have any drawings of the differential gimbal? Interested to see how it looks.

Vladinsky•6/15/22, 6:34 AM

Sounds almost like how you get pitch and roll in a two actuator motion rig?

Deleted User•6/15/22, 6:34 AM

https://simxperience.azurewebsites.net/portals/0/Images/StageSeriesRacingSims/Stage2-2.png

I read a good book about the early days of flight simulation with NACA and NASA. They sometimes used

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