@ChaiQi you're not the only one apparently: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/02/ubuntu-mini-iso-redu

@ChaiQi you're not the only one apparently: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/02/ubuntu-mini-iso-redux

Ubuntu Devs Working on New 140MiB 'Mini' ISO - OMG! Ubuntu!

A new network installer is in development for Ubuntu 23.04. The size of the ISO could be as low as 140MIB making it a good fit for USB & CDs.

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 2:54 PM

"brings up a dynamic TUI menu of what Ubuntu images you want to download/install to your target system"

Jj0rge @ChaiQi you're not the only one apparently: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/02/...

dreamyuki•2/27/23, 2:56 PM

So this is basically like debian netinstall?

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 2:56 PM

I haven't used a debian netinstall since like 2004 so I don't remember what it does lol

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 2:58 PM

sounds like this one will just splat the image onto disk so it should be way faster than the older installers

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 3:07 PM

I need a hand here: https://github.com/ublue-os/base/pull/79

GitHub

feat: ease customization by reading flatpaks and rpms to install fr...

This leverages shell scripting and https://github.com/TomWright/dasel to read the list of packages to install in ublue-firstboot and the containerfile.
If in the future another firstboot solution i...

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 3:07 PM

I need to test the image but their PR can't push to the registry

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 3:07 PM

ideas?

xyny•2/27/23, 3:14 PM

What yall talked about with the composability / eating our dogfood sounds fantastic, especially as the current selection of non-nvidia images feels very GNOME-oriented.

xyny•2/27/23, 3:14 PM

Also: Thanks for adding me to the org!

Jj0rge I need to test the image but their PR can't push to the registry

xyny•2/27/23, 3:17 PM

Yeah, I locally built the image and everything seems to work. Just can't figure out how to rebase without it being in a registry. Don't know why the push fails, thought that was intentional. I don't think anything I changed should affect that.

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 3:24 PM

I sent an invite, accept it and then it should work, I just put you in the org

Jj0rge @ChaiQi you're not the only one apparently: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/02/...

ChaiQi•2/27/23, 3:25 PM

Interesting! The idea occurred to me for two reasons:

There were already a lot of parallel images, then when I mentioned steam-devices y'all went from it to udev rules to all udev rules to codecs to app bundles to a modular repo system, and the potential image count/complexity ballooned. A unified installer seemed like a great way to manage that complexity in the user space. If you offer base, Silverblue, Kinoite, Vauxite, and two or three more options, that last one dramatically cuts the chance that someone will ever choose any of them over another distro. Big hazard in marketing and the psychology of decision making in general. One installer for all of them with no-selection defaults alleviates it
Regardless of necessity, it's a relatively "simple" type of feature which at least Windows if not Mac users expect, and it's a lot less imposing as a first step than working from the command line. I would hope that it somewhat bridges the gap of what users somewhat arbitrarily think of as polished and indicative of a consumer-ready operating system due to familiarity and availability heuristics

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 3:26 PM

well, tbh, the udev-rules have been there since the beginning, it was only just a scratch container tho

ChaiQi•2/27/23, 3:27 PM

Much more robust now, I think

CChaiQi Interesting! The idea occurred to me for two reasons: - There were already a l...

ChaiQi•2/27/23, 3:29 PM

TLDR: Excellent work, green flags from all four of my fields and maybe a big edge for Fedora

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 3:30 PM

@hermmm you should be able to rekickoff the PR builds, lmk if you want me to do it tho

ChaiQi•2/27/23, 3:48 PM

Also - never before have I seen OS devs move a tenth so fast to address usability concerns, UX, and reliability. It's already made a huge difference for me personally, and it's exactly the sort of thing I aspire to and built my major around. I really appreciate it and I look forward to having time to contribute more directly

jstone•2/27/23, 4:00 PM

We're able to move fast because we're leveraging some of the best features of containers, which is making a build system that's relocatable, easy to offload onto other hosts, can be structured in whatever makes the most sense for our needs, and is easy to normalize with one pull spec composing an entire file tree compared to having to test against any number of package configurations

CChaiQi Also - never before have I seen OS devs move a tenth so fast to address usabilit...

dreamyuki•2/27/23, 4:01 PM

Ublue feels like the future of linux desktop

Jjstone We're able to move fast because we're leveraging some of the best features of co...

ChaiQi•2/27/23, 4:02 PM

Good stuff!

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 4:03 PM

yeah it's easier when you start from scratch

jstone•2/27/23, 4:03 PM

Semi-relevant, but we're able to piggyback off of the shoulders of tech giants in the best way possible https://xkcd.com/1988/

xkcd: Containers

All services are microservices if you ignore most of their features.

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 4:03 PM

plus we can move faster than fedora because we don't have to use pagure, bugzilla, etc.

Marco (马可)•2/27/23, 4:04 PM

I absolutely agree with jstone, but appreciate your sentiment. This wouldn't have really been possible 2 years ago - it's right at the edge of a tipping point in how we build desktop distros

dreamyuki•2/27/23, 4:06 PM

Imagine if ubuntu switch to same model as silverblue rn
With OCI image etc

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 4:09 PM

they won't

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 4:10 PM

they won't even finish ubuntu core desktop so they're mostly actively avoiding it outside of iot

dreamyuki•2/27/23, 4:12 PM

Ubuntu core desktop is planned?

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 4:14 PM

yeah it's been around for years

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 4:16 PM

https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-core-desktop

GitHub

GitHub - canonical/ubuntu-core-desktop

Contribute to canonical/ubuntu-core-desktop development by creating an account on GitHub.

ChaiQi•2/27/23, 4:16 PM

that is... a sad-looking preview, for what it represents

dreamyuki•2/27/23, 4:17 PM

Last update is 1 month ago

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 4:18 PM

yeah it's only a side thing

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 4:18 PM

but also who knows what's private

jstone•2/27/23, 4:56 PM

Canonical's take: "what if we deployed a distro as a bunch of containerized images that get updated side-by-side?", Silverblue's take: "what if we deployed a distro as one containerized image that gets updated in one place?"

ChaiQi•2/27/23, 4:58 PM

Heh
Sounds about right

dreamyuki•2/27/23, 5:00 PM

Silverblue way sounds better

ChaiQi•2/27/23, 5:01 PM

Normally it would sound worse to me
But the way it's implemented makes it far better

ChaiQi•2/27/23, 5:02 PM

Because it does the opposite of sacrifice modularity to achieve that singular image

jstone•2/27/23, 5:03 PM

I think snap has a weakness that its developers weren't "brave enough" to go all-in with snapifying a distro. If they decided to have an entire OS as one big snap, it would basically be a much less efficient ostree

jstone•2/27/23, 5:05 PM

They probably didn't know how to make large images that could be extended like how rpm-ostree can install layered RPMs, so the next best thing is to break up a distro into a bunch of snaps

ChaiQi•2/27/23, 5:10 PM

Honestly I think it feels a lot cleaner and more reliable to just have one big eldritch monster I have to go to special effort to even see which does everything from running the DE to browsing to text editing to who knows what, instead of having a hundred snaps cluttering several obvious places for a few apps and a bunch of pieces of an OS

ChaiQi•2/27/23, 5:15 PM

Eventually I'll unlayer a bunch of that, once I figure out why distrobox refuses to integrate

Jj0rge @hermmm you should be able to rekickoff the PR builds, lmk if you want me to do ...

xyny•2/27/23, 6:07 PM

I think I did it, nothing changed though.

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 6:29 PM

k I'll take a look in a bit

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 9:08 PM

alright, lunch and then github time!

jstone•2/27/23, 9:28 PM

Oh hey, does github CI go faster if it's pulling images from ghcr.io instead of quay.io? I'd imagine there'd be a higher chance of getting a cache hit if it's pulling images that're on the same host

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 9:28 PM

I didn't notice one way or the other when we switched out the images

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 9:44 PM

@KyleGospo heya after I review and merge herm's stuff into base I'm thinking just removing vanilla's thing from the base image, keep 37 with herm's improvements and then basically call it "finished", but then do 38 with the new wizard, etc.

j0rgeOP•2/27/23, 9:44 PM

Can you keep the copr building it though?

@ChaiQi you're not the only one apparently: https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/02/ubuntu-mini-iso-redu

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