Cloudflare Developers•3y ago

Does the durable objects list endpoint return in lexicographic order the same as the KV list endpoin

Does the durable objects list endpoint return in lexicographic order the same as the KV list endpoint?

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 12:42 PM

Not mentioned in the API docs

Jjohtso Does the durable objects list endpoint return in lexicographic order the same as...

DaniFoldi•3/11/23, 1:02 PM

I believe it does, at least according to behaviour I've seen, and quoting from the docs

reverse: boolean
reverse: boolean

If true, return results in descending order instead of the default ascending order.
Note that enabling this does not change the meaning of start, startKey, or endKey. start still defines the smallest key in lexicographic order that can be returned (inclusive), effectively serving as the endpoint for a reverse-order list. end still defines the largest key in lexicographic order that the list should consider (exclusive), effectively serving as the starting point for a reverse-order list.

DDaniFoldi I believe it does, at least according to behaviour I've seen, and quoting from t...

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:07 PM

Ahhh.. but the IDs are derived from the names so I guess not useful

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:07 PM

Unless the IDs have the creation time at the beginning?

DaniFoldi•3/11/23, 1:08 PM

Ah are you referring to https://developers.cloudflare.com/api/operations/durable-objects-namespace-list-objects ?

Cloudflare API Documentation

Interact with Cloudflare's products and services via the Cloudflare API

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:08 PM

Yep

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:08 PM

Where did your quote come from?

DaniFoldi•3/11/23, 1:08 PM

I don't think there are any guarantees around the ordering there

Jjohtso Where did your quote come from?

DaniFoldi•3/11/23, 1:09 PM

That's for the storage list operation

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:09 PM

Was just hoping to be able to query recent objects without having to store Extra references somewhere

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:21 PM

Is there any reason I couldn't run a website in a durable object?

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:22 PM

Would there be big performance issues?

Jjohtso Is there any reason I couldn't run a website in a durable object?

Hello, I’m Allie!•3/11/23, 1:27 PM

The biggest limitation is the limit of ~100 RPS

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:28 PM

Oh nice, that's plenty enough for me

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:28 PM

I guess you also need to make sure not to block the gates?

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:30 PM

For me one location is better, all requests are going to be from the same place

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:30 PM

And it means I can use kv without cache staleness issues

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:33 PM

Do you know of a nice DO based rate limiting example? I feel like there might have been a blog post..

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:58 PM

I guess it's not really a DO thing as it doesn't even need persistence

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 1:58 PM

just need a good in-memory rate limiter implementation

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:10 PM

I guess that's true as long as my rate limiting only cares about a window of 10 seconds or less

Jjohtso I guess that's true as long as my rate limiting only cares about a window of 10 ...

DaniFoldi•3/11/23, 2:12 PM

*30, DOs stick around for 30 seconds after a request

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:13 PM

good to know, I think the docs say a minimum of 10s

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:13 PM

"In the absence of failures, in-memory state should not be reset after less than 10 seconds of inactivity."

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:14 PM

but I guess that's the pessimistic number

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:15 PM

I wonder if it's better to implement a rate limiter as a proxy or just as an api that returns whether a request should be allowed..

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:15 PM

I guess a proxy would be more efficient

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:16 PM

but probably only very marginally?

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:25 PM

@skye_31 hold on a minute, if I hosted my website in a DO wouldn't everyone's requests block every time I made a fetch to another DO / worker?

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:25 PM

or is that input output gate stuff only for storage operations?

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:26 PM

which I guess I can turn off with

allowConcurrency

allowConcurrency

and

allowUnconfirmed

allowUnconfirmed

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:26 PM

no worries

Jjohtso @skye_31 hold on a minute, if I hosted my website in a DO wouldn't everyone's re...

DaniFoldi•3/11/23, 2:30 PM

You're correct in that if the input gate is closed, no new requests will come in. The input gate is opened whenever you make an external async request, such as fetch another DO/worker - so that should open the input gate and allow other requests to be processed in the meantime.

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:42 PM

just trying to get my head around what the deal is if every request needed to increment a value in storage, and making the get and then put atomic

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:44 PM

I feel like it just works, but I'd love to understand why

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:44 PM

I think I just need to read the blog post 10 more times until it all clicks

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:47 PM

and probably do some more reading on how javascript concurrency works

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:51 PM

"Any other events will be deferred until such a time as the object is no longer executing JavaScript code and is no longer waiting for any storage operations"

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:51 PM

I think this is the bit I was missing!

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 2:53 PM

new events wont be delivered while code is executing, only when the event loop is idle

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 3:03 PM

@skye_31 another potential issue. say my DO needed to calculate some expensive hashing function when a user logs in, that would block all other requests

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 3:03 PM

where as with a worker the other requests would get handled by another instance?

Original message was deleted

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 4:09 PM

so I guess you'd just have to be extra careful to have short execution time, and defer anything that might be cpu intensive to another worker/do

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 4:23 PM

@skye_31 I guess I just liked the idea that my entry point would be colocated with my other DOs so communicating between them would be faster, and things like a rate limit check could even be stored locally to avoid an extra request for each user request

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 4:24 PM

but yeah, premature optimisation

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 4:25 PM

yeah, it did seem like you could get pretty far with that!

Original message was deleted

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 4:28 PM

the one rule limit is kind of restrictive though

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 4:30 PM

probably enough though when I think about it

johtsoOP•3/11/23, 6:08 PM

can durable objects not have cron triggers?

DaniFoldi•3/11/23, 6:12 PM

They have something similar called alarms, which are actually more precise, but you have to schedule it every time

Does the durable objects list endpoint return in lexicographic order the same as the KV list endpoin

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