maybe I'm stupid but the wgpu readme _literally says_ "Safe and portable GPU abstraction in Rust, im

maybe I'm stupid but the wgpu readme literally says "Safe and portable GPU abstraction in Rust, implementing WebGPU API." ... how is it unrelated if it implements the webgpu API

I get that it's rust and not C and you can't swap it out for another webgpu implementation, but like ... "it's the same thing, but in rust?"

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:37 AM

I get that it's not direct bindings

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:37 AM

and that it has RAII while the C API does not

Ddarth maybe I'm stupid but the wgpu readme _literally says_ "Safe and portable GPU abs...

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:37 AM

implementing an API does not make you related to said original project

Kai•4/8/23, 12:38 AM

The AMDVLK readme literally says "The AMD Open Source Driver for Vulkan® is an open-source Vulkan driver for ...", but vulkan is still an indepentend concept and if your app works with vulkan, it'll work just fine regardless of AMDVLK/amdgpu or whatever else

LLyris the Kitori implementing an API does not make you related to said original project

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:38 AM

yes but you literally said here help-and-questions "conceptually", not just organizationally

Volte•4/8/23, 12:38 AM

PoltixeTheDerg#9088

unrelated conceptually

Original Message

Click here

Quoted by darth#1090

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:38 AM

I get it's not the same project

Ddarth yes but you literally said here https://discord.com/channels/521092042781229087/...

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:38 AM

yes, webgpu-native is an API definition

wgpu-naitve is software

Kai•4/8/23, 12:38 AM

ok maybe this will clarify, it'll be hard to understand wgpu without understanding webgpu

Kai•4/8/23, 12:38 AM

but webgpu is completely understandable without wgpu

Kai•4/8/23, 12:39 AM

so webgpu is conceptually, as well as organizationally, as well as whatever else, unrelated to wgpu

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:40 AM

maybe we have a different meaning of the word unrelated ... opengl and directx are unrelated to me, if I'm using wgpu, I'm literally reading the webgpu spec to understand how some things work

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:40 AM

https://github.com/webgpu-native/webgpu-headers
these are the raw headers for webgpu-native, it is only an API specification

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:42 AM

okay so if I say "wgpu is a nice high level wrapper around a webgpu implementation", is that accurate?

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:42 AM

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:43 AM

wgpuwgpu (without the -native) is a Rust API unrelated to webgpu

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:43 AM

wgpu-native is an implementation of the webgpu-native API

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:43 AM

web engines like gecko, will for example wgpu-core or wgpu-native or Dawn directly to implement the webgpu API

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:44 AM

note the webgpu API is not the same as the webgpu-native API

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:44 AM

okay maybe it's just obvious and I'm missing it but ... how is the wgpu API and webgpu API different on a fundamental level, other than wgpu is "safe wrappers with RAII and stuff"?

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:45 AM

I get that it's not the same exact API as the C headers

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:45 AM

but wgpu bind groups and webgpu bind groups are the same bind groups? etc.

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:45 AM

wgpu is not "safe wrappers" of WebGPU

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:46 AM

wgpu does not use wgpu-native

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:46 AM

it uses wgpu-core and wgpu-hal

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:47 AM

well yes it has more backends than just wgpu-native

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:47 AM

but how is the wgpu API itself different from webgpu API?

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:47 AM

it doesnt reference wgpu-native at all, its different

Ddarth but how is the wgpu API itself different from webgpu API?

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:47 AM

its just not the webgpu api, webgpu is JS, and functions differently

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:49 AM

... okay but if everything like bind groups, layouts, pipelines, etc. are the same ... then it's clearly related from the user perspective?

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:49 AM

its not the same

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:49 AM

its SIMILAR in a lot of ways, but thats out of convenience

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:49 AM

can you give me one example of a difference? because wgpu people have been linking the webgpu spec as a reference a lot

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:50 AM

I haven't used webgpu itself directly, I literally use wgpu and read the webgpu spec

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:51 AM

shader modules are created differently in both webgpu and webgpu-native, theres no "wgsl" object you put in the "source" parameter

in webgpu-native you do struct chaining of a few structs, in webgpu you just pass the source directly, due to there being no SPIRV in the webgpu specification

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:53 AM

okay, but that's like a small technical detail no? like this doesn't really change how the graphics API behaves

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:53 AM

any changes and extras in the wgpu api will not effect and are not effected by changes in the webgpu api

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:53 AM

right

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:54 AM

theres a reason wgpu does not claim to implement the WebGPU api

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:54 AM

wgpu-native is what claims to implement the webgpu-native api

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:55 AM

wgpu is just a rust GPU api based on the same hardware abstractions and core

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:55 AM

sure but if it's just technical differences, then for the users it's "basically the same thing", all knowledge is transferable, and people can just use one or the other and the differences are a bit like "if you're on the web you don't have a filesystem" rather than "opengl vs vulkan" differences?

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:57 AM

look idk what you are trying to accomplish obviously we dont agree and im not changing my viewpoint, and you arent changing your viewpoint

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:57 AM

I'm trying to understand what each thing is

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:57 AM

I'm not trying to change your viewpoint

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:57 AM

wgpu is a rust GPU api
wgpu-native is an implementation of webgpu-native

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:57 AM

both are based on wgpu-core and wgpu-hal

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:58 AM

nothing more, nothing less

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:59 AM

ok, my point was not from the "I'm right you're wrong", it's from a "I found a link to this library, the readmes basically contradict each other" ... but it's fine, I get the points mentioned

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:59 AM

everything else like the APIs it uses is an implementation detail, the readme's do not contradict

maybe I'm stupid but the wgpu readme _literally says_ "Safe and portable GPU abstraction in Rust, im

Similar Threads