here's a cursed prototype i came up with just now <https://sharplab.io/#v2:CYLg1APgAgTADAWAFAHMA2B7A

here's a cursed prototype i came up with just now https://sharplab.io/#v2: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=

khitiara•4/8/23, 5:07 PM

mhm

PPerksey because unless the user turns it off, we can decorate the C# language with a bun...

chairclr•4/8/23, 5:10 PM

what the fu

Howie•4/8/23, 5:29 PM

wow

Machinarius•4/8/23, 6:47 PM

Am I correct in assuming that OpenGL will treat raw vertexes without model or projection matrices as clip-space coords? [-1, 1]

MMachinarius Am I correct in assuming that OpenGL will treat raw vertexes without model or pr...

PerkseyOP•4/8/23, 6:49 PM

yup

PPerksey here's a cursed prototype i came up with just now <https://sharplab.io/#v2:CYLg1...

TechPizza•4/8/23, 7:01 PM

oh no, a static readonly instead of a static property when

TechPizza•4/8/23, 7:01 PM

i actually ported msvc std source to c# with a

Ref<T>

Ref<T>

helper lol

TechPizza•4/8/23, 7:02 PM

it was basically a

ref

ref

that acted as a pointer

TTechPizza i actually ported msvc std source to c# with a `Ref<T>` helper lol

PerkseyOP•4/8/23, 7:18 PM

Yeah this is basically what I’m thinking, but I just need to figure out how we can have a Ref-like struct in a non-ref struct

PerkseyOP•4/8/23, 7:19 PM

otherwise you can’t have Ptr<VkBaseOutStructure> and other common patterns

FFurball dxvk exists but idk if the developer experience on linux would be great

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 8:17 PM

you have access to renderdoc and a debugger, so it's really workable

PPerksey you awoken the era of graphics i've been trying to pretend doesn't exist 😂

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:11 PM

https://github.com/Furball-Engine/Furball.Vixie/blob/master/Furball.Vixie.Backends.OpenGL/FixedFunctionOpenGLRenderer.cs
when

GitHub

Furball.Vixie/FixedFunctionOpenGLRenderer.cs at master · Furball-En...

A Multi API Renderer specifically designed to be integrated into Furball, aswell as providing good Hardware support - Furball.Vixie/FixedFunctionOpenGLRenderer.cs at master · Furball-Engine/Furbal...

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:13 PM

if you think about it FFP is better than modern OpenGL as it has display lists

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:13 PM

so its basically vulkan with command lists

PerkseyOP•4/8/23, 9:13 PM

NO BAD

PPerksey NO BAD

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:13 PM

OKAY BUT DISPLAY LISTS IN MODERN OPENGL WOULD BE SO NICE

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:13 PM

i know theres nv_command_list but its nv only

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:14 PM

FFP OpenGL does have SOME things going for it

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:14 PM

the ability to disconnect recording draw commands from execution is something that OpenGL should have kept

TechPizza•4/8/23, 9:14 PM

funnily enough, recorded display lists on nvidia in legacygl seem pretty good

TechPizza•4/8/23, 9:15 PM

the only problem is that conditional rendering is a no-go

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:15 PM

yeah on my ol 1050ti my FFP code was shockingly fast

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:15 PM

it was 10x slower

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:15 PM

but

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:15 PM

thats still

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:15 PM

really fast

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:15 PM

with my engine

TechPizza•4/8/23, 9:15 PM

i mean, take minecraft beta for example. it recorded chunks to display lists i think

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:16 PM

yeah i think it did

PerkseyOP•4/8/23, 9:16 PM

it's weird that amd hasn't tried implementing nv_command_list

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:16 PM

PerkseyOP•4/8/23, 9:16 PM

they implemented WGL_NV_dx_interop

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:16 PM

im shocked Mesa doesnt have it

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:16 PM

nv_command_list is something i would expect Mesa to be able to do

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:16 PM

OH i wonder if Zink has it

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:16 PM

Zink would make sense to have it

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:17 PM

id test but they still havent fixed whatever bug causes my engine to crash on Zink

PerkseyOP•4/8/23, 9:17 PM

holy crap the nv_command_list spec is also extremely detailed

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:17 PM

still

PerkseyOP•4/8/23, 9:18 PM

although the way it's presented immediately makes it obvious why it isn't implemented

PerkseyOP•4/8/23, 9:18 PM

engines can just do this

TechPizza•4/8/23, 9:18 PM

veldrid moment

PerkseyOP•4/8/23, 9:18 PM

        enum DrawCommandSequenceNV(enum mode, enum indexType, void *address, sizei size)
        {
          enum modeStrip;
          if      (mode == TRIANGLES)            modeStrip = TRIANGLE_STRIP;
          else if (mode == LINES)                modeStrip = LINE_STRIP;
          else if (mode == LINES_ADJACENCY)      modeStrip = LINE_STRIP_ADJACENCY;
          else if (mode == TRIANGLES_ADJACENCY)  modeStrip = TRIANGLE_STRIP_ADJACENCY;
          else if (mode == QUADS)                modeStrip = QUAD_STRIP;
          else    modeStrip = mode;

          enum modeSpecial;
          if      (mode == LINES)      modeSpecial = LINE_LOOP;
          else if (mode == TRIANGLES)  modeSpecial = TRIANGLE_FAN;
          else    modeSpecial = mode;

          void *current = address;
          
          while (current != (ubyte *)address + size) {
            uint    header  = *(uint*)current;

            switch( GetTokenType(header)){
            case TERMINATE_SEQUENCE_NV:
              {
                return indexType;
              }
              break;
            case NOP_COMMAND_NV:
            
              break;
            case DRAW_ELEMENTS_COMMAND_NV:
              {
                DrawElementsCommandNV* cmd = (DrawElementsCommandNV*)current;
                DrawElementsBaseVertex(mode, cmd->count, indexType, (void*)(cmd->firstIndex * sizeofindextype), cmd->baseVertex);
              }
              break;
            case DRAW_ARRAYS_COMMAND_NV:
              {
                DrawArraysCommandNV* cmd = (DrawArraysCommandNV*)current;
                DrawArrays(mode, cmd->first, cmd->count);
              }
              break;
            case DRAW_ELEMENTS_STRIP_COMMAND_NV:
              {
                DrawElementsCommandNV* cmd = (DrawElementsCommandNV*)current;
                DrawElementsBaseVertex(modeStrip, cmd->count, indexType, (void*)(cmd->firstIndex * sizeofindextype), cmd->baseVertex);
              }
              break;
...

        enum DrawCommandSequenceNV(enum mode, enum indexType, void *address, sizei size)
        {
          enum modeStrip;
          if      (mode == TRIANGLES)            modeStrip = TRIANGLE_STRIP;
          else if (mode == LINES)                modeStrip = LINE_STRIP;
          else if (mode == LINES_ADJACENCY)      modeStrip = LINE_STRIP_ADJACENCY;
          else if (mode == TRIANGLES_ADJACENCY)  modeStrip = TRIANGLE_STRIP_ADJACENCY;
          else if (mode == QUADS)                modeStrip = QUAD_STRIP;
          else    modeStrip = mode;

          enum modeSpecial;
          if      (mode == LINES)      modeSpecial = LINE_LOOP;
          else if (mode == TRIANGLES)  modeSpecial = TRIANGLE_FAN;
          else    modeSpecial = mode;

          void *current = address;
          
          while (current != (ubyte *)address + size) {
            uint    header  = *(uint*)current;

            switch( GetTokenType(header)){
            case TERMINATE_SEQUENCE_NV:
              {
                return indexType;
              }
              break;
            case NOP_COMMAND_NV:
            
              break;
            case DRAW_ELEMENTS_COMMAND_NV:
              {
                DrawElementsCommandNV* cmd = (DrawElementsCommandNV*)current;
                DrawElementsBaseVertex(mode, cmd->count, indexType, (void*)(cmd->firstIndex * sizeofindextype), cmd->baseVertex);
              }
              break;
            case DRAW_ARRAYS_COMMAND_NV:
              {
                DrawArraysCommandNV* cmd = (DrawArraysCommandNV*)current;
                DrawArrays(mode, cmd->first, cmd->count);
              }
              break;
            case DRAW_ELEMENTS_STRIP_COMMAND_NV:
              {
                DrawElementsCommandNV* cmd = (DrawElementsCommandNV*)current;
                DrawElementsBaseVertex(modeStrip, cmd->count, indexType, (void*)(cmd->firstIndex * sizeofindextype), cmd->baseVertex);
              }
              break;
...

etc

TechPizza•4/8/23, 9:18 PM

oh no, i realized i can do software conditional rendering in veldrid, how cursed

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:19 PM

display lists in FFP hint towards it being internally "compiled" to a faster internal sequence of commands, that you cant achieve with normal calls

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:19 PM

does it actually do that? idk

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 9:19 PM

maybe?

TechPizza•4/8/23, 9:19 PM

yeah so we put your verts in a buffer, no need to thank us

PerkseyOP•4/8/23, 9:19 PM

just think of what you can do with all of those nanoseconds

enum DrawCommandSequenceNV(enum mode, enum indexType, void *address, sizei size) { enum modeStrip; if (mode == TRIANGLES) modeStrip = TRIANGLE_STRIP; else if (mode == LINES) modeStrip = LINE_STRIP; else if (mode == LINES_ADJACENCY) modeStrip = LINE_STRIP_ADJACENCY; else if (mode == TRIANGLES_ADJACENCY) modeStrip = TRIANGLE_STRIP_ADJACENCY; else if (mode == QUADS) modeStrip = QUAD_STRIP; else modeStrip = mode; enum modeSpecial; if (mode == LINES) modeSpecial = LINE_LOOP; else if (mode == TRIANGLES) modeSpecial = TRIANGLE_FAN; else modeSpecial = mode; void *current = address; while (current != (ubyte *)address + size) { uint header = *(uint*)current; switch( GetTokenType(header)){ case TERMINATE_SEQUENCE_NV: { return indexType; } break; case NOP_COMMAND_NV: break; case DRAW_ELEMENTS_COMMAND_NV: { DrawElementsCommandNV* cmd = (DrawElementsCommandNV*)current; DrawElementsBaseVertex(mode, cmd->count, indexType, (void*)(cmd->firstIndex * sizeofindextype), cmd->baseVertex); } break; case DRAW_ARRAYS_COMMAND_NV: { DrawArraysCommandNV* cmd = (DrawArraysCommandNV*)current; DrawArrays(mode, cmd->first, cmd->count); } break; case DRAW_ELEMENTS_STRIP_COMMAND_NV: { DrawElementsCommandNV* cmd = (DrawElementsCommandNV*)current; DrawElementsBaseVertex(modeStrip, cmd->count, indexType, (void*)(cmd->firstIndex * sizeofindextype), cmd->baseVertex); } break; ...

here's a cursed prototype i came up with just now <https://sharplab.io/#v2:CYLg1APgAgTADAWAFAHMA2B7A

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