Cloudflare Developers•3y ago

The issue with providing free stuff is that things like this have a tendency to pop up faster than t

The issue with providing free stuff is that things like this have a tendency to pop up faster than they can be found.

Nnomaxx117 The issue with providing free stuff is that things like this have a tendency to ...

brylan•5/21/23, 10:55 PM

Cant blame cf

brylan•5/21/23, 10:56 PM

Criminals buy with a crypto currency a cheap domain then use fake identities to sign up with cloudflare

nomaxx117OP•5/21/23, 10:56 PM

yea

brylan•5/21/23, 10:56 PM

no stopping them

Eend The question was also directed more towards the users. After all, Cloudflare doe...

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 12:33 AM

Why not vote with your wallet? As an enterprise user, why would you put up with such a thing? It becomes an issue when a customer will no longer pay because of X, otherwise, it's cheaper to ignore it. But then again, you move, and now you're no longer a Cloudflare customer & those scam websites will still exist.

Eend Since when does Cloudflare prioritize phishing websites in the Free Plan? We rep...

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:35 AM

Anyone understand how these things coexist? Always found this argument about Cloudflare being a egress angel fascinating.

Where Cloudflare says AWS egress is egregious, but then charges more than AWS for ARGO usage, at $0.1/GB? Effectively a 8000-9000% markup

If $92.07 is egregious from AWS, how come $104.90 is not also, egregious?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11InPX3PDntyC1-F-tWeNwpoztYozf7JeC7OE6iZrc_0/edit?ref=blog.cloudflare.com#gid=1312371137

Screenshot_2023-05-22_at_11.33.23_am.png

Google Docs

AWS Egregious Egress

Sheet1

AWS Egregious Egress
1Mbps = TBs per month at 100% utilization,0.3285
Billed at 95th percentile,0.3458
Estimated average AWS utilization per month,20%
AWS Region,AWS Cost at 1TB/month*,Implied Mbps $,Estimated Regional Cost Per Mbps,Markup
US/Canada,$92.07,$6.37,$0.08,7959%
Europe,$92.07,...

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:39 AM

The CDN on IBM Cloud is $0.22/GB that's egregious to me lul

kian•5/22/23, 1:43 AM

Argo is an add-on

kian•5/22/23, 1:43 AM

You're charged $0 for using the CDN (proxy, cache, etc)

kian•5/22/23, 1:43 AM

That includes the DDoS protection, so 'protected traffic'

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:45 AM

That's not the point. The point is, if AWS is egregious in it's charge for egress, than charging more than that for egress defeats that entire statement.

kian•5/22/23, 1:46 AM

The point is that you're comparing S3 egress, which is inavoidable, to AWS Global Accelerator.

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:46 AM

Can't make a statement on one hand that charging 8000% is egregious and then charge more markup on the other.

Kkian The point is that you're comparing S3 egress, which is inavoidable, to AWS Globa...

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:47 AM

Meh, Cloudfront is similar in cost or a lot less at scale, and egress to cloudfront negates the S3 cost. But the charges of Cloudfront even at PB scale are still 'egregious'.
Plus can't exactly compare 5 locations to 20+ via S3.

Ddefido 👊⛽Meh, Cloudfront is similar in cost or a lot less at scale, and egress to cloudfr...

Isaac McFadyen•5/22/23, 1:48 AM

Cloudfront is not the same as Global Accelerator.

Isaac McFadyen•5/22/23, 1:48 AM

Cloudflare's version of Cloudfront - the CDN - is free.

Isaac McFadyen•5/22/23, 1:48 AM

Cloudflare's version of Global Accelerator (which AWS charges for as well) is not free and is an optional add-on.

IIsaac McFadyen Cloudflare's version of Cloudfront - the CDN - is free.

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:48 AM

It's not "free" use it for Video and you'll find it certainly aint "free"

kian•5/22/23, 1:48 AM

Not related to Argo, at all.

Ddefido 👊⛽It's not "free" use it for Video and you'll find it certainly aint "free"

Isaac McFadyen•5/22/23, 1:49 AM

True - but that's the terms of service. Not related to the pricing or Argo.

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:49 AM

But the point, is $0.1 and $0.22/GB Egregious or not?

kian•5/22/23, 1:49 AM

You don't seem to understand what's happening here.

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:49 AM

If $0.85/GB is, than is $0.22/GB not?

kian•5/22/23, 1:49 AM

Argo is an add-on service, that actually does things beyond "charge you per byte that went through the CDN" - so it's like Global Accelerator

Kkian Argo is an add-on service, that actually does things beyond "charge you per byte...

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:50 AM

Yeah i know how it works, if the cost to deliver that in USA is $0.08Mbps, and Cloudflare charges $0.01/GB or 9000% markup, is it or is it not 'egregious'. I think you're stating it's not egregious

kian•5/22/23, 1:50 AM

Still, missing the point.

kian•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

You're not being charged for the cost of the egress.

kian•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

You're paying for the service that is Argo Smart Routing.

Isaac McFadyen•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

You're comparing two different services that serve two different purposes.

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

I'm talking about all bandwidth charges

kian•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

You are free to not use ASR, and pay $0/month.

kian•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

R2 egress is $0/month

kian•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

CDN ingress/egress is $0/month

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

blanket bandwidth Mbps, which is what Cloudflare wrote in their blog

kian•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

Stream egress is $0/month

kian•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

Images egress is $0/month

kian•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

You see there's a pattern forming here

Isaac McFadyen•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

Workers egress is $0/month

Kkian Stream egress is $0/month

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

Stream Egress is not $0/month

kian•5/22/23, 1:51 AM

It is.

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:52 AM

It's billed at the minute

kian•5/22/23, 1:52 AM

Yep.

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:52 AM

That minute is just egress masked.

kian•5/22/23, 1:52 AM

But if you have a minute of 4K video or 144p video, it's the same

kian•5/22/23, 1:52 AM

so you can't really include it in comparisons to AWS's 'egregious' egress bandwidth costs

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:52 AM

4K is not playable via Stream, it's max bitrate is 8Mbps

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:53 AM

Max resolution is 1080p

kian•5/22/23, 1:53 AM

Great - assume it's 8Mbps instead then.

kian•5/22/23, 1:53 AM

defido 👊⛽•5/22/23, 1:53 AM

I said max. Not constant. If you did the math on that, it would be cheaper at GB than it would per minute. But I'm going to go with $0.1/GB and $0.22/GB are egregious. So having a rant at AWS for being expensive and then charging just the same is kinda funny to me.

The issue with providing free stuff is that things like this have a tendency to pop up faster than t

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