127 replies

It realy doesnt make sense at this point

It realy doesnt make sense at this point to build everything from scratch ourself as the point is for us to build uppon what fedora image based distros provide, there would also be not much of a benefit to us going from scratch

np2•6/1/23, 7:31 PM

My main concern is with the upcoming changes with composefs and co. It probably won't be a thing for a few months, but it'll definitely hinder any project that wants to build directly off existing sb images.

np2•6/1/23, 7:31 PM

https://github.com/ostreedev/ostree/issues/2867

GitHub

Design phases for composefs integration · Issue #2867 · ostreedev/o...

composefs/ostree (and beyond) Background A key design goal of ostree at its creation was to not require any new functionality in the Linux kernel. The baseline mechanisms of hard links and read-onl...

j0rge•6/1/23, 7:31 PM

what's the specific concern?

Nnp2 My main concern is with the upcoming changes with composefs and co. It probably ...

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:32 PM

My guess is we will have to do slight modifications but that shouldnt be too hard

Jj0rge what's the specific concern?

np2•6/1/23, 7:34 PM

If I understood this right, when this lands, there will be an option where everything is signed with a per-deployment private/public key pair and verified on the fly. Because nobody except the fedora project has access to those keys, it's rather difficult to add anything.

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:34 PM

Well we would have to sign everything ourself of course

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:35 PM

But thats expected

j0rge•6/1/23, 7:35 PM

yeah we'll just do what they tell us to do

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:35 PM

Anything “from scratch” is usually not a good idea and needs substantiating to justify that it’s worth it. No need to continuously re-invent the wheel. Besides, what’s “from scratch”?

j0rge•6/1/23, 7:36 PM

I'll see if I can drop in on this meeting tho

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:36 PM

what meeting?

j0rge•6/1/23, 7:36 PM

the one they mention in the issue

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:36 PM

They know that there are people basing on sb so colin and co will probably ensure it can be done

j0rge•6/1/23, 7:36 PM

j0rge•6/1/23, 7:36 PM

that's tomorrow

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:37 PM

Oh ok just found it. I’ll be able to join as a listener as well given it doesn’t go for over an hour. Would be nice if it’s recorded

BBigpod They know that there are people basing on sb so colin and co will probably ensur...

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:37 PM

Is there incentive for them to care?

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:37 PM

I’m new to this whole ecosystem

BBigpod They know that there are people basing on sb so colin and co will probably ensur...

np2•6/1/23, 7:37 PM

oh, that's good

Jj0rge Click to see attachment

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:38 PM

I might join as well if i actualy can wake up at right time

PPhantom0 Is there incentive for them to care?

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:39 PM

Yes, because beyond us a lot of groups are doing this type of modificstions for coreos like we do for silverblue

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:40 PM

How does this benefit silverblue

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:40 PM

And coreos uses same tech as silverblue

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:40 PM

Security and trust

PPhantom0 How does this benefit silverblue

np2•6/1/23, 7:41 PM

One of the biggest concerns with immutable systems is customizability. Ensuring that custom deployments can be easily made without duplicating a bunch of work is a good thing for sb and friends.

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:43 PM

It eould also make no sense for them to first make big features that allow easy cusomizability then go and lock it down right after in next big featurr

j0rge•6/1/23, 7:43 PM

I've been trying real hard to kill that myth lol

j0rge•6/1/23, 7:43 PM

because they are supporting these things on purpose

BBigpod Security and trust

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:43 PM

True, it looks like they want RHEL to go immutable at some point

np2•6/1/23, 7:43 PM

Red Hat CoreOS is alr a thing

j0rge•6/1/23, 7:43 PM

RHEL Edge already exists

np2•6/1/23, 7:44 PM

and is the default distro for all openshift deployments

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:44 PM

Well the os upon which openshift runs is already immutable rhel coreos

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:44 PM

Interesting

j0rge•6/1/23, 7:44 PM

but yeah, it'd be nice if they made a general purpose RHEL ostree one too

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:44 PM

I thought red hat tests things on fedora and centos beforehand

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:45 PM

Things are getting weird now so I don’t know if that’s still the case

Jj0rge but yeah, it'd be nice if they made a general purpose RHEL ostree one too

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:45 PM

Rhel coreos can be used but to get isos is an adventure

PPhantom0 I thought red hat tests things on fedora and centos beforehand

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:45 PM

Kinda but not always

PPhantom0 I thought red hat tests things on fedora and centos beforehand

np2•6/1/23, 7:46 PM

atomic host wg was proposed/added in 2015, (over) 8 years ago

np2•6/1/23, 7:46 PM

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AtomicHost

AtomicHost

BBigpod Kinda but not always

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:46 PM

What else do they do to test things before use by major corporations?

np2•6/1/23, 7:46 PM

the core tech is mature

Nnp2 atomic host wg was proposed/added in 2015, (over) 8 years ago

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:47 PM

Last updated: 2014-11-11

PPhantom0 What else do they do to test things before use by major corporations?

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:48 PM

Some of them they test on their own amd other things they test as a part of open source projects related to it, besides coreos is kinda an old thing by now

BigpodOP•6/1/23, 7:48 PM

Coreos is really a continuation of container linux

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:49 PM

I think you mean the opposite maybe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_Linux

Container Linux

Container Linux (formerly CoreOS Linux) is a discontinued open-source lightweight operating system based on the Linux kernel and designed for providing infrastructure to clustered deployments, while focusing on automation, ease of application deployment, security, reliability and scalability. As an operating system, Container Linux provided onl...

Nnp2 Red Hat CoreOS is alr a thing

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:49 PM

Discontinued

PPhantom0 Discontinued

np2•6/1/23, 7:50 PM

https://docs.openshift.com/container-platform/4.13/architecture/architecture-rhcos.html

Phantom0•6/1/23, 7:50 PM

Latest release May 22, 2020; 3 years ago

It realy doesnt make sense at this point

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