Any helicopter enthusiast would disagree vehemently that "a spring and some resistance" makes for a

Any helicopter enthusiast would disagree vehemently that "a spring and some resistance" makes for a suitable collective.

Is a FFB collective going to make me a better sim heli-pilot? No, absolutely not. Is it going to be fk'n cool? Yes.. yes it is.

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 2:42 AM

because if I could just buy one rudder set for example that can do everything that would save me a lot of money or time if I like to fly different stuff

NNumber481 Any helicopter enthusiast would disagree vehemently that "a spring and some resi...

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 2:44 AM

Ok well I just cant think of any benefits it would have over a mechanical spring and resistance collective

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 2:50 AM

like I would only use my collective for only flying helicopters and its easy enough to make a mechanical system that works really well just for that specific purpose

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 2:51 AM

while a joystick I need it for everything like flyng my helciopter,plane spacship etc

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 2:55 AM

like I'm not tryng to be mean or anything im just sayng what I think as a sim enthusiast

Number481OP•6/2/23, 2:56 AM

I mean.. I'm not going to try to convince you that you need a FFB collective. By that same logic, a throttle quadrant serves fine as a collective too. Many people who don't focus on heli's do so.. and thats fine.

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 2:57 AM

a throttle quadrant isnt the best as a collective because it has no spring so you have to use a really high resistance to keep the collective head up which doesn't feel very nice and can have stiction

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 2:58 AM

if you could add a spring to the throttle quadrant whenever you want to use it as a collective then that would work

Number481OP•6/2/23, 3:01 AM

you lost me with the spring.... a collective stays where you move it

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:02 AM

yeah but normally it wants to fall down because of gravity

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:03 AM

so you etheir have to use lots of resistance to keep it from falling or add a spring to equalize the weight and then a bit of resistance for feel

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:04 AM

when you just use resistance then when your pulling it up you can feel more resistance then when your pushing it down which feels weird

Number481OP•6/2/23, 3:08 AM

thats why people make counterbalanced designs. Hydraulic dampening is superior to friction as well. My current (DIY) collective is counterbalanced and uses a rotary damper to provide dampening. Its a 3D printed monstrosity, but it performs better than anything you'd get from Virpil or elsewhere.

This 'FFB' design I am working on will be far superior to my current in-use design.

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:10 AM

the spring does the same function as counter balance

Number481OP•6/2/23, 3:10 AM

Its totally fine if you don't see the point. It doesn't hurt my feelings. It won't hurt my feelings if nobody ever makes one either. The design will be made available regardless...

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:11 AM

well if you could tell me the point then maybe I would see it lol

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:11 AM

like why is the ffb design superior to counter balance

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:12 AM

im curious to know

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:13 AM

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S744d0e93524b49f4aa4b5fc132f886511/Wire-Diameter-1-5mm-High-Strength-V-Shaped-Torsion-Spring-60-90-120-180-Torque-Angle.jpg_Q90.jpg_.webp

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:13 AM

so you can use a torsion spring like this

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:14 AM

the only diference between a spring and counter balance is that you can fly upside down with the counter balance irl and the stick would stay where it is while with a spring it would fall

SSwiftVengeance like why is the ffb design superior to counter balance

Number481OP•6/2/23, 3:24 AM

Time for me to go to bed here in my time zone but...

My FFB design is counterbalanced
FFB design will bring all the features of the Rhino control board including, but not limited to
- Adjustable dampening force
- Friction Effects
- Ability to simulate friction lock for collective
- Adjustable end stops
- Telemetry based effects (gunfire, ordinance drop, ETL, etc..etc..)

NNumber481 Time for me to go to bed here in my time zone but... - My FFB design *is* count...

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:27 AM

sorry about that

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:28 AM

FFB allows a proper use of collective brake usage, that

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:28 AM

the friction lock sounds interesting

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:28 AM

's the #1 reason

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:28 AM

but whats the purpose of it while flyng

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:29 AM

I heard a few more expensive helciopters have it

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:29 AM

think friction lock, but unlocks at push of button and allows the altitude hold function to move the collective

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:30 AM

it's hard to explain, as it works different in different helos

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:30 AM

hmm

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:31 AM

I personally wouldn't have a use for it as my K51 does everything I need except maybe for quick swap heads, but if you wanted that level of fidelity

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:31 AM

I'm not even sure DCS even models it as a ffb thing

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:32 AM

I guess its a preference thing, I fly in vr so I dont know how I would feel about my collective moving

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:32 AM

DCS doesn't actually have any baked in FFB stuff, i think it's up to the individual module makers to make it work

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:32 AM

at least that's how I understand it

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:33 AM

for example the apache has altitude hold but I dont think the collective moves while it holds altitude in the real thing

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:33 AM

I only fly VR as well, but your brain "knows" where it is based on engine noise alone really

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:34 AM

I don't know, ask Brad, he'd tell you

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:34 AM

I feel like I would want to have that if I was building a replica cockpit of a specific helicopter that has that feature and I want it to operate exactly the same way

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:35 AM

I know in the KA50, the whole "break out" zone where you can overpower the collective to break out of alt hold is a DCSism because IRL you press the collective brake disengage button to move the collective and that is what disables the alt hold

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:36 AM

you can achieve friction lock and moving collective with a closed loop stepper motor. you just tell it where to go and when to hold position

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:36 AM

otherwise, it's held in place via mag brake, not friction iirc.

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:37 AM

industiral servo motors sometimes come with mag brakes

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:37 AM

I dunno, this is all rivet counter in the weeds stuff that doesn't matter

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:38 AM

well its a cost and complexity thing

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:38 AM

A simple stepper like he is building is the easiest and cheapest way to do the thing. Otherwise a 15 cent friction clutch like the K51 does the rest for the rest of us

Boosted•6/2/23, 3:38 AM

The K51 isn't even counterbalanced and it's smooth as silk

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:38 AM

oh is he doing it with a stepper

SwiftVengeance•6/2/23, 3:39 AM

it must be light then

Any helicopter enthusiast would disagree vehemently that "a spring and some resistance" makes for a

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