drizzle orm is overhyped

Everyone is talking about drizzle orm. we all know that vercel pays people to talk

I feel prisma DX is no match for drizzle orm no matter what they say prisma is here to stay

You may say performance
Why not develop you backend in rust or golang if performance was your main focus

DX and community

willm•6/5/23, 7:28 PM

Neto•6/5/23, 7:39 PM

You may say performance 
Why not develop you backend in rust or golang if performance was your main focus

You may say performance 
Why not develop you backend in rust or golang if performance was your main focus

Neto•6/5/23, 7:39 PM

performance in sql terms

Neto•6/5/23, 7:39 PM

not in raw runtime performance

Neto•6/5/23, 7:39 PM

if you run the same query, be on nodejs, rust, golang or whatever

Neto•6/5/23, 7:39 PM

can you guess the performance?

LopenOP•6/5/23, 7:46 PM

Most applications won't reach the so called performance bottle necks

The term is performance is overshoot so as scalability leading to over engineering

Prisma is enough for most applications but this whole drizzle hype may pressure you people to rebuilding it all

Tom•6/5/23, 8:31 PM

I will say that when it comes to prisma ther performance actually IS an issue at any scale

Tom•6/5/23, 8:31 PM

cause no matter what size your app is, if you run it serverlessly youre gunna eat a huge coldstart time which matters much more if your app is small

Tom•6/5/23, 8:32 PM

prisma kinda seems to reverse scale in that way. it gets BETTER the more users you have cause you get less cold starts

Tom•6/5/23, 8:33 PM

prisma has a great DX, but its also a full ORM which has advantages and disadvantages. The main disadvantage is you do kinda get locked in hard.

Tom•6/5/23, 8:34 PM

for reference, im using kysely for my app which i like a lot because its very easy to understand: it makes my sql queries typesafe. nothing more and nothing less

Tom•6/5/23, 8:36 PM

i dont really use the migrations, but they seem overrated a bit overrated in both drizzle and prisma. for instance in prisma, (AFAICT) i need to specify default values to add a column. i cant do calculations on previous columns.

Tom•6/5/23, 8:36 PM

maybe im wrong about that last bit, by the point i was looking into migrations i was already looking elsewhere because of the coldstart performance

Tom•6/5/23, 8:39 PM

(also the fact that it manually does its own joins is bonkers)

LLopen Everyone is talking about drizzle orm. we all know that vercel pays people to ta...

Mendy•6/6/23, 11:54 AM

Drizzle has a long way to go, agreed.
Dose it worth the pain? YES!

I was using Prisma for a db with 30 tables. To simply get the context for the user, it created 4 different queries. Each request would take more then a second just to get the context.
With Drizzle using prepared statement, this is down to 60ms.

I'm not hyped, just practical.

znix•6/6/23, 12:21 PM

as far as i’ve understood, its a great alternative when ur going serverless. so i decided to go with bare metal and go with prisma…

mapacheney•6/6/23, 12:54 PM

Not having to generate types and restart your lsp when changing your schema is good too haha

Zznix as far as i’ve understood, its a great alternative when ur going serverless. so ...

Mendy•6/6/23, 1:15 PM

Yes, cold starts and edge are the main selling points, but Drizzle will speed up your queries in any env - especially with db like PlanetScale.

znix•6/6/23, 1:16 PM

I see.

Jim•6/6/23, 1:18 PM

prisma is over engineered deranged

Mmapacheney Not having to generate types and restart your lsp when changing your schema is g...

LopenOP•6/6/23, 7:26 PM

Eventually your typescript server will die and you will still restart it

JJim prisma is over engineered <:deranged:1053416319497805915>

iukea•6/8/23, 4:50 AM

I would say prisma's engineers.... Would not say it's engineered with how poor it actually does queries

Zan•6/8/23, 4:57 AM

not having to run codegen in my build is a big +

ZZan not having to run codegen in my build is a big +

iukea•6/8/23, 5:02 AM

Agree.

Please mind you I am saying what I said above .... But I am using Prisma

Chen•6/8/23, 8:30 AM

i thoguht recently prisma made some changes that made them like 10x faster or something for coldstart on serverless.

is Drizzle still miles better than PRisma?

CChen i thoguht recently prisma made some changes that made them like 10x faster or so...

Sybatron•6/8/23, 9:47 AM

They work differently
Prisma still have giant query engine that everything goes trough
And not best thing in optimized queries so more complex queries will still hurt a lot

CChen i thoguht recently prisma made some changes that made them like 10x faster or so...

Tom•6/8/23, 5:38 PM

i tried these changes (which were not well documented btw). they did not make it 10x faster. i couldnt replicate the results they listed in the blog post

Tom•6/8/23, 5:38 PM

and the fact that the orm does manual joins is bonkers

Tom•6/8/23, 5:39 PM

i get that it was probably easier to develop, but that should be a minimum requirement for an orm

CChen i thoguht recently prisma made some changes that made them like 10x faster or so...

Tom•6/8/23, 5:41 PM

better is also relative. Drizzle is still in active development so its not gunna have all the features and stability

Tom•6/8/23, 5:42 PM

but it definitely performs way better

Tom•6/8/23, 5:42 PM

and you may not need the features

cje•6/8/23, 6:54 PM

Why is this in questions lol

cje•6/8/23, 6:54 PM

@barry this is the first time you can tell someone to not post in questions

barry•6/8/23, 6:55 PM

@Lopen32

barry•6/8/23, 6:55 PM

https://giphy.com/gifs/nounish-dao-nouns-goldypix-f8lDluiWJ7yQTtdS3L

Giphynounish ⌐◨-◨

barry•6/8/23, 6:55 PM

You done fucked up little lopen man, this is the questions channel, for questions, we have a #tech-discussion for this kind of bullshit

TTom better is also relative. Drizzle is still in active development so its not gunna...

Chen•6/8/23, 7:07 PM

Interesting!
I'm assuming you're using drizzle in a vercel serverless environment.

how much of a performance increase do you see/feel for basic operations?

Tom•6/8/23, 7:37 PM

im actually using kysely now. i tried drizzle but opted for kysely for some more structural reasons

Tom•6/8/23, 7:38 PM

but my test db has literally 1 row in it and i just did a query on that row and on cold starts i saw it take up to 9s to return data

Tom•6/8/23, 7:39 PM

kysely cold start is still in the 4s range but thats at least tolerable for something i dont plan on happening that often once the app scales up a bit