My mistake, it was the dash complaining but it allowed me to continue! However, on the final screen

My mistake, it was the dash complaining but it allowed me to continue!

However, on the final screen, it's complaining that google is my priority 1 MX record, is there a way around this?

I basically want gmail for receive/send but cloudflare to also be able to send, seems like cloudflare wants to be able to receive as well

JJeff My mistake, it was the dash complaining but it allowed me to continue! However,...

Isaac McFadyen•7/18/23, 3:53 PM

Not really - Google is your Priority 1 MX record which means all incoming emails will go to Google (and skip email routing). I don't think you can tell emails to go to both

Isaac McFadyen•7/18/23, 3:54 PM

And yeah - as Leo said, CF doesn't send emails. Email Routing is receive only which is why it needs to be your highest priority MX record

JeffOP•7/18/23, 4:01 PM

Thanks guys!

SSZAGLAM How bad is `X-MC-Relay: Bad` ?

skoogeer•7/18/23, 5:54 PM

If you see X-MC-Relay: Bad in the headers of a message delivered through MailChannels, it means the message has been grouped with somewhat suspicious traffic. You won't necessarily get worse deliverability as a result and I would encourage you to just be patient. Over time, you will gain a good reputation within our platform and your mail will be promoted to a "Good" pool if your behaviour is flawless.

skoogeer•7/18/23, 5:55 PM

You may see other IP pools identified; if you see "Junk" then there is really a problem with your mail

IIsaac McFadyen And yeah - as Leo said, CF doesn't send emails. Email Routing is receive only wh...

skoogeer•7/18/23, 5:56 PM

For email routing, if your domain's email is generally handled by Gmail, you can set up a subdomain for your Cloudflare email routing traffic - something like routed.example.com - and configure Cloudflare MX'es for that subdomain.

Sskoogeer For email routing, if your domain's email is generally handled by Gmail, you can...

Isaac McFadyen•7/18/23, 5:58 PM

Yeah absolutely, but you'd still need to send to that subdomain - you can't route to both on the apex domain

skoogeer•7/18/23, 6:19 PM

Thanks for clarifying, Leo. I wasn't aware of that limitation.

Fernando Dilland•7/18/23, 8:18 PM

In Cloudflare Routing I only managed to configure to receive emails, is it possible to send emails using cloudflare in between?

FFernando Dilland In Cloudflare Routing I only managed to configure to receive emails, is it possi...

Hello, I’m Allie!•7/18/23, 8:19 PM

You can send to already-verified email addresses, but for arbitrary emails, you can use MailChannels to send emails from Workers.

HHello, I’m Allie!You can send to already-verified email addresses, but for arbitrary emails, you ...

Fernando Dilland•7/18/23, 8:22 PM

Verified email addresses refers to the SPF configured to approve some mail hosting (that sends emails)? With Cloudflare Workers I am interested in sending emails but are there any docs?

FFernando Dilland Verified email addresses refers to the SPF configured to approve some mail hosti...

Hello, I’m Allie!•7/18/23, 8:22 PM

No, Verified Emails are the ones that have clicked the verification link they received

Hello, I’m Allie!•7/18/23, 8:23 PM

So any email approved for Email Routing/Forwarding

HHello, I’m Allie!No, Verified Emails are the ones that have clicked the verification link they re...

Fernando Dilland•7/18/23, 8:23 PM

Ok yes true, Cloudflare sends verification email, thanks

HHello, I’m Allie!You can send to already-verified email addresses, but for arbitrary emails, you ...

Fernando Dilland•7/18/23, 8:29 PM

Another question, is MailChannels paid?

FFernando Dilland Another question, is MailChannels paid?

Hello, I’m Allie!•7/18/23, 8:31 PM

MailChannels does have a paid product, but you aren’t required to pay to send emails

HHello, I’m Allie!MailChannels does have a paid product, but you aren’t required to pay to send em...

Fernando Dilland•7/18/23, 8:32 PM

Thank you very much for your knowledge, one more question I found that Cloudflare has a partnership with MailChannels, that is, can I send emails for free via Workers?

FFernando Dilland Thank you very much for your knowledge, one more question I found that Cloudflar...

Hello, I’m Allie!•7/18/23, 8:44 PM

Yes, that is true

skoogeer•7/18/23, 10:26 PM

We may introduce features that requirement a paid plan in future, but basic email sending will remain free. The major advantage of using a paid plan is you gain the ability to add a sender-id header, allowing you to specify which of your "end users" is responsible for each message. For people building apps that allow, say, their users to send messages to contacts in a SaaS platform, being able to specify a "sender-id" is helpful because it lets us block those individual senders rather than your entire CF-Worker.

skoogeer•7/18/23, 10:27 PM

We will do our best to be transparent about any plans to charge for functionality that we introduce to the API in future.

Unsmart•7/18/23, 10:32 PM

I think I'd rather take my chances of being blocked rather than paying a minimum of $80/mo for me and my 0 users KEKL

skoogeer•7/18/23, 11:25 PM

Yes for sure if you don’t have user-generated content, there is no need to have multiple sender-id’s.

Sskoogeer We may introduce features that requirement a paid plan in future, but basic emai...

Hello, I’m Allie!•7/18/23, 11:49 PM

Would this also be able to be accomplished by rate-limiting MC API calls from the Worker-side?

HHello, I’m Allie!Would this also be able to be accomplished by rate-limiting MC API calls from th...

skoogeer•7/18/23, 11:51 PM

Not necessarily. If you send user generated content at significant scale, you will definitely want the fine grained abuse handling of sender-id’s. It also allows us to send you web hooks when we detect badly behaved senders, which you can then easily block. This is how we service tens of millions of WordPress sites across hundreds of hosting providers.

Sskoogeer Not necessarily. If you send user generated content at significant scale, you wi...

Hello, I’m Allie!•7/19/23, 12:17 AM

Would this be oriented more toward generic sending? Since with Transactional(at least if I understand what they are correctly) Emails, then it shouldn’t be too difficult to manually rate limit it? I.e. sending magic links, there isn’t much you can abuse there if you can only send once every five minutes(plus maybe a blacklist for certain emails that do get spammed).

skoogeer•7/19/23, 12:22 AM

We automatically adapt to your Worker as you send. Generally speaking, if you are sending only a few messages per hour, you won’t trigger any adaptive rate limits at all. If you want to blast to a huge list, then keeping your initial sending rate under about 1,000 per hour will ensure we don’t slow you down. As a general rule, if you get a rate limiting error response from our API, just pause for a bit and then keep going, backing off until your mail is accepted again.

JJeff My mistake, it was the dash complaining but it allowed me to continue! However,...

dave•7/19/23, 2:55 PM

you can use a subdomain for email routing

JJeff My mistake, it was the dash complaining but it allowed me to continue! However,...

dave•7/19/23, 2:59 PM

if you want to send mail to CF email routing from your main domain (on Google Workspace) for specific inboxes, go here: https://admin.google.com/u/1/ac/apps/gmail/routing

https://admin.google.com/u/1/ac/apps/gmail/hosts <- add Cloudflare as a host here.

JeffOP•7/19/23, 3:00 PM

Oh wow, this is awesome, thanks. I just ended up using the mail channels free offering but may have to switch to this approach

JJeff Oh wow, this is awesome, thanks. I just ended up using the mail channels free of...

dave•7/19/23, 3:00 PM

this is for inbound emails, not outgoing

dave•7/19/23, 3:01 PM

afaik mailchannels does not have a free offering for inbound mail

dave•7/19/23, 3:26 PM

You can also do the same thing but with SendGrid Inbound Parse (100% free too) to send a webhook to your CF Worker. You should protect your POST endpoint with basic auth, as SendGrid does not sign these webhook payloads. I would also recommend using random path to reduce the number of Worker requests you pay for (e.g. bind your POST endpoint to

https://jeff.invalid/sg/random_string_here

https://jeff.invalid/sg/random_string_here

). (I'd also stick a random query parameter in there as an extra measure, as your random string POST endpoint will be visible in your CF dashboard, and it also helps if you ever screw up with basic auth implementation.)

That said, Cloudflare Email Routing to a Worker seems to be working great for us. Anecdotally I've heard from others that SendGrid can be more reliable, but I have yet to personally see that. For really important emails, you could have Google Workspace forward to both SendGrid Inbound Parse and Cloudflare Email Routing, and then do deduplication in your Worker.

dave•7/19/23, 3:30 PM

SendGrid Inbound Parse also does not allow you to use

abuse

abuse

postmaster

postmaster

, and

unsubscribe

unsubscribe

as usernames, which could be a dealbreaker. https://docs.sendgrid.com/for-developers/parsing-email/setting-up-the-inbound-parse-webhook#testing

You need access to

postmaster@jeff.example

postmaster@jeff.example

for signing up for things like https://senders.yahooinc.com/complaint-feedback-loop/.

Cloudflare Email Routing works fine for

abuse

abuse

postmaster

postmaster

, and

unsubscribe

unsubscribe

. (We've tested all three on our main root domain.)

dave•7/19/23, 3:40 PM

Last thing, be mindful that you are rate limited to 60 emails per minute if you use your root domain (which is on Google Workspace).

https://support.google.com/a/answer/1366776?hl=en

Gmail receiving limits in Google Workspace - Google Workspace Admin...

To keep Gmail efficient and accounts safe, Google limits the number of messages you can receive. If your account receives many automated messages, it's more likely your account will reach the message

Ddave afaik mailchannels does not have a free offering for inbound mail

skoogeer•7/19/23, 9:33 PM

We used to offer free inbound filtering to Cloudflare customers via the app marketplace, but uptake wasn't great. We removed it.

Sskoogeer We used to offer free inbound filtering to Cloudflare customers via the app mark...

dave•7/19/23, 9:33 PM

isn't the app marketplace dead too?

skoogeer•7/19/23, 9:33 PM

We sort of thought it might be dying soon too...

dave•7/19/23, 9:35 PM

I think inbound parsing is oddly not as popular as many of us would initially believe. Like SendGrid not bothering to add signatures makes me wonder how many people really use it.

Unsmart•7/19/23, 9:38 PM

im curious how apps v2 will play out whenever they eventually get that out...

Unsmart•7/19/23, 9:39 PM

no theyve said in the past that they are working on a new apps system that will be similar to cf apps

Original message was deleted

dave•7/19/23, 9:39 PM

I like that.

Unsmart•7/19/23, 9:40 PM

I mean it basically would be yes but you add it to other peoples accounts instead of your own

Unsmart•7/19/23, 9:41 PM

thats not workers for platforms

Unsmart•7/19/23, 9:41 PM

It would be cloudflare apps but revived and using CF workers instead of whatever system it uses rn

Unsmart•7/19/23, 9:42 PM

Though who knows if thats even being actively worked on or its just an idea for at some point in the future maybe they will do it lol

Kowchoo•7/21/23, 12:05 AM

Anyone know the maximum number of matchers for a routing rule? (see https://developers.cloudflare.com/api/operations/email-routing-routing-rules-update-routing-rule)

I've been trying to get the limit of 200 rules raised for my domain but two weeks later and I'm not getting a response after several attempts. My fallback solution could be to create a single rule with >200 matchers and just maintain it via the API, but I'd rather not do the work and only later find out that there's another hidden limit.

Cloudflare API Documentation

Interact with Cloudflare's products and services via the Cloudflare API

Unsmart•7/21/23, 12:07 AM

Sounds like you should be using workers to route it where you want instead which allow an infinite number of conditions for how you want to route mail since you can code anything you want with that path

Kowchoo•7/21/23, 12:11 AM

If the worker would allow me to dynamically update the list via an API, I may do that. After dropping Google Workspace for my email routing due to the lack of an API (seriously, wtf is up with that?) I found CF's API to be great and I figured I could do just about anything with it.

Unsmart•7/21/23, 12:12 AM

you wouldnt update with an API the worker would be the routing rules so you can lookup rules into KV or just have static rules that you update a worker when you need or whatever

My mistake, it was the dash complaining but it allowed me to continue! However, on the final screen

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