ive been trying to work out settings for the force trim to behave in the DCS AH-64 for some time now

ive been trying to work out settings for the force trim to behave in the DCS AH-64 for some time now. The issue I have seems to be around the new center once the force trim is activated. If I activate force trim the controls do not hold exactly where I set the new trim, it always springs back slightly toward center. I'm not sure whats wrong and i've tried all sorts of combination of settings to no avail.

MashedPotato•8/15/23, 2:02 AM

Got my kit build up and running today (at least to see outputs on my laptop, desktop is down, so no real testing).

I plugged my realsimulator F/A-18 in to it, expecting to just run it for power and BTLE in, as normal. To my surprise, the Rhino software detects button inputs from it! However, it does not detect the SCS depress, the actual RECCE depress, or the TRIM depress (so the hats on the face, it does detect pickle depress).

Any idea why it might be missing those buttons, or any way to fix it?

MashedPotato•8/15/23, 2:21 AM

It looks like the grip is sending those as DX buttons 61-63, if the Rhino does not look for those buttons, is there any way to do a remap on the Rhino side, or expand what it sees?

JJIGGAwest ive been trying to work out settings for the force trim to behave in the DCS AH-...

Number481•8/15/23, 2:24 AM

I had this problem initially when I had a curve set on the cyclic axis' in the apache

MMashedPotato It looks like the grip is sending those as DX buttons 61-63, if the Rhino does n...

HPLsCat•8/15/23, 2:57 AM

I was hoping this would be fixed as well. Along with the force 8 way hats to 4 way

NNumber481 I had this problem initially when I had a curve set on the cyclic axis' in the a...

JIGGAwestOP•8/15/23, 3:06 AM

it was my understanding that setting a curve in DCS conflicted with other FFB settings

Number481•8/15/23, 3:08 AM

my rote understanding of it is that FFB doesn't understand the curve exists, so when the in-game stick movement is not 1:1 with the physical stick movement, FFB sets the center point based on the virtual stick position, not the physical stick position.

Number481•8/15/23, 3:10 AM

hence, if your physical stick has moved farther than the virtual stick, the new trimmed position, based on the virtual stick position, is closer to center than the physical stick actually is.. thats why the new center doesn't match where you had the physical stick

Number481•8/15/23, 3:12 AM

thats a really long winded way of saying that might be the problem, unless you don't have any curves set, in which case I don't know because I dont have the issue (without any curves set)

NNumber481 thats a really long winded way of saying that might be the problem, unless you d...

JIGGAwestOP•8/15/23, 3:33 AM

although, I see that I get the same effect inside the VPForce software. Are you saying that setting the curve in DCS is what is correcting the behavior?

JJIGGAwest although, I see that I get the same effect inside the VPForce software. Are you ...

Number481•8/15/23, 3:33 AM

no.. the opposite.. If you have a curve set, it will behave as I describe

JJIGGAwest although, I see that I get the same effect inside the VPForce software. Are you ...

Number481•8/15/23, 3:34 AM

you mean with no sim running and just using the hardware force trim?

JIGGAwestOP•8/15/23, 3:34 AM

yes, no sim running.

JIGGAwestOP•8/15/23, 3:34 AM

i get the offset effect to where I trim

JIGGAwestOP•8/15/23, 3:36 AM

I almost feel like its a balace issue. But when I try to use the balance spring, I cant get a reliable new center when off center either.

JJIGGAwest I almost feel like its a balace issue. But when I try to use the balance spring,...

Number481•8/15/23, 3:37 AM

have you tried the new firmware with the dynamic centering? working pretty well for me

Number481•8/15/23, 3:37 AM

sorry.. "adaptive" centering

NNumber481 have you tried the new firmware with the dynamic centering? working pretty well...

JIGGAwestOP•8/15/23, 3:37 AM

yes, it just re centers to the wrong position

Number481•8/15/23, 3:39 AM

hmmm Im sure walmis would be able to tell you whats up in 2 seconds. So the blue-dot doesn't stay in the middle of the blue circle? Or, the blue-circle ends up in the wrong spot when you release the trim?

JIGGAwestOP•8/15/23, 3:42 AM

no, it doesn't hold center.

Number481•8/15/23, 3:47 AM

thats really bazar. I've got a pretty heavy grip on a 20cm extension with 100mm rear offset and it holds center of dot pretty damn good

JIGGAwestOP•8/15/23, 3:54 AM

I've tried 200mm - 250mm extensions. Virpil Alpha grip, The virpil extension... Currently running QR4rigs 200mm with 75mm offset extension.

JIGGAwestOP•8/15/23, 3:55 AM

they all behave the same way.

Number481•8/15/23, 3:59 AM

if you want, post your vpconf export and I'll try to reproduce..

Number481•8/15/23, 4:23 AM

I've gotta hit the sack, but you can try mine

Default_Config-2023-08-15_002223.vpconf6.49KB

JJIGGAwest Click to see attachment

walmis•8/15/23, 4:41 AM

Yeah this looks puzzling. If you completely turn off spring, how does it feel by itself? On the right side of the gimbal there is the grip cable (under the leather cover), it's possible it can twist on itself an give a springiness by the edge.

MMashedPotato It looks like the grip is sending those as DX buttons 61-63, if the Rhino does n...

walmis•8/15/23, 4:42 AM

Can you select generic grip (debug), and post some data from the debug tab when clicking those buttons?

AAnthony Does TelemFFB also need an updating along with the .15 FFB Configurator or has s...

walmis•8/15/23, 4:49 AM

Maybe you have pot set for periodic effects and it's turned down? Otherwise if you could post your settings might give some clues.

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:40 AM

is there a way to change the volume on the latest firmware update?

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:44 AM

also, the new firmware seems to report a bunch of buttons and pov hats to windows that dont actually exist. I have the virpil alpha grip, and this is what it show as buttons i have available, and the blue items are what i've managed to actually press

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:44 AM

settings are:

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:46 AM

also, if i have something like this for settings, will the adaptive spring centering now be enabled in games that apply springs? or is this only an affect related to stuff applied by the configurator app?

Aamadeus also, the new firmware seems to report a bunch of buttons and pov hats to window...

walmis•8/15/23, 6:49 AM

Nope, hardware limitation
Those are not necessarily used, but you can remap to them
Yep, it will apply to all spring forces

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:49 AM

also, i totally could be hallucinating, but if i apply a spring affect in the configurator app, it does feel like it might be applying a bit differently, could totally just be placebo memes

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:49 AM

(like how it applies at the extremities, did the physics change there?)

walmis•8/15/23, 6:50 AM

What do you mean?

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:50 AM

i literally have no way to explain it, and i don't mean the feedback in a bad way, just feels a tad different, but could totally just be me lookinglooking for changes and not actually being anything that did change

walmis•8/15/23, 6:51 AM

If Adaptive centering is on it might feel a bit different

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:51 AM

yeah, that might be it, tbh

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:52 AM

i like the change in feeling, but this is me literally testing it with spring effects set to 100%, not in game or anything

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:52 AM

like it feels a bit more forceful when returning lol

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:59 AM

friction seems to do less vibrating than it did from before

amadeus•8/15/23, 6:59 AM

i can set the total scale to 8% now, instead of 7%