Cloudflare Developers•3y ago

I installed it on both ends, still nothing sadly

PPicolé I installed it on both ends, still nothing sadly

Cyb3r-Jak3•8/21/23, 9:35 PM

How are you accessing it from the client?

PicoléOP•8/21/23, 9:36 PM

both pcs logged into cloudflared same account
created the TCP on port 554 inside Tunnels panel
status is healthy in the panel

tried going into VLC and using the subdomain to check if it works but getting nothing in there

PPicolé both pcs logged into cloudflared same account created the TCP on port 554 inside...

Cyb3r-Jak3•8/21/23, 9:38 PM

From the client you are doing cloudflared tunnel --hostname tcp.site.com --url tcp://localhost:7870cloudflared tunnel --hostname tcp.site.com --url tcp://localhost:7870 then pointing the RTSP client to localhost:7870localhost:7870?

CCyb3r-Jak3 From the client you are doing `cloudflared tunnel --hostname tcp.site.com --url ...

PicoléOP•8/21/23, 9:41 PM

exactly, just tried (port 554) but I just get Your input can't be openedYour input can't be opened after a while

Ook So even if you set SPF, DKIM, DMARC & Domain Lockdown at cf workers, there's sti...

skoogeer•8/21/23, 10:29 PM

No, if you create a Domain Lockdown record, then we will not deliver any email for your domain except as you authorize it in your lockdown record.

Original message was deleted

skoogeer•8/21/23, 10:30 PM

This no longer works because you must have a Domain Lockdown record in place before you can send email using our API on Workers.

Original message was deleted

skoogeer•8/21/23, 10:31 PM

@nora This is not true. If you set up a Domain Lockdown record for your domain, then we will not deliver email for your domain except as you specifically authorize in the DNS.

Cchientrm.com I'm not sure, $80 then they can spoof but Idk how could they spoof DKIM.

skoogeer•8/21/23, 10:33 PM

To be abundantly clear, if you create a Domain Lockdown record, then even someone paying MailChannels $1M/mo cannot send email on behalf of your domain.

Unsmart•8/21/23, 10:45 PM

so $2M/mo is the lucky number /s

Sskoogeer To be abundantly clear, if you create a Domain Lockdown record, then even someon...

James•8/21/23, 10:54 PM

How would someone enforce Domain Lockdown when they don't use Workers? That's entirely related to the cf-workercf-worker header... no? How do I ensure only I can send from my domain, and not any of your other paying customers, outside of Workers?

James•8/21/23, 10:54 PM

All of the docs I've seen at least are explicitly talking about cf-workercf-worker. If there's something I'm missing, please let me know

Cchientrm.com I got MailChannels lockdown + SPF + DKIM + DMARC setup already.

DarkDeviL•8/21/23, 10:57 PM

Depending on your "trust", re. e.g. the messages above, you can also kill the SPF in various different ways (deleting the SPF record, removing "include:relay.mailchannels.net", ... or similar), and attempt that way to lean only on DKIM authentication, if you're 100% sure that DKIM is set up and working properly, which your DMARC reports can eventually assist with (over time).

While I am a fan of as strict security policies as possible, including e.g. having a DMARC reject, and SPF "-all" (e.g. DASH all) policy, setting SPF alone to "v=spf1 -all" as an attempt to lean on DKIM authentication alone, may be able to trigger some spam filters, believing that the "v=spf1 -all" means "this domain never sends mails".

That part should be solvable, by having any (apparent valid) part between "v=spf1" and "-all" though.

Final result, regardless what you do or attempt, will always depend on the individual receiving mail server / destination though.

Sskoogeer This no longer works because you must have a Domain Lockdown record in place bef...

James•8/21/23, 10:57 PM

But it does still work if someone just gives you $80 and uses your SMTP relay, no?

James•8/21/23, 10:59 PM

With Workers, yes

James•8/21/23, 10:59 PM

I'm talking outside of Workers entirely

James•8/21/23, 10:59 PM

How can I setup a Domain Lockdown record that lets only me send using the SMTP relay, and no on else? Not in Workers.

JJames How can I setup a Domain Lockdown record that lets only me send using the SMTP r...

DarkDeviL•8/21/23, 11:00 PM

Isn't that on https://support.mailchannels.com/hc/en-us/articles/16918954360845-Secure-your-domain-name-against-spoofing-with-Domain-Lockdown- ?

James•8/21/23, 11:01 PM

Oh I see, there's

auth

auth

and senderidsenderid options instead of cfidcfid. Okay this is good.

James•8/21/23, 11:01 PM

Now they need to enforce this for all customers.

James•8/21/23, 11:01 PM

And then, I'll be happy recommending MailChannels

JJames Now they need to enforce this for all customers.

DarkDeviL•8/21/23, 11:01 PM

This sounds what @ttul said abvove that it is (now being)?

DDarkDeviL This sounds what @ttul said abvove that it is (now being)?

James•8/21/23, 11:02 PM

I mean, enforce sender verification in general. Don't allow any email to be sent without this (or something) set. So actually protect their large customers like boston.govboston.gov.

DarkDeviL•8/21/23, 11:04 PM

Could be me, but doesn't general-discussions sound like it's in effect already?

James•8/21/23, 11:04 PM

It's wild to me that it's taken all of this public pressure for change, when this has been known since 2016. But once they actually enforce this, I'll be happy recommending MailChannels

DDarkDeviL Could be me, but doesn't https://discord.com/channels/595317990191398933/9094582...

James•8/21/23, 11:05 PM

No, that's an opt-in to not being spoofed. People still have to create that record.

James•8/21/23, 11:05 PM

You can still signup right now and spoof any customer without this record.

DarkDeviL•8/21/23, 11:05 PM

Oh, you meant it like that.

James•8/21/23, 11:06 PM

And I've not checked, but I would put a lot of money on the 2+ million affected not adding this record yet.

James•8/21/23, 11:06 PM

It's a great start, don't get me wrong. But it's still not enough in my opinion.

FFrerduro is obervatory broken? I am unable to check a website however 3rd pary websites w...

Frerduro•8/21/23, 11:07 PM

DarkDeviL•8/21/23, 11:08 PM

I just understood that you were looking into having $80+/mo SMTP relay customers to be locked out, if you had:

_mailchannels TXT "v=mc1 cfid=spaghetti.invalid"

which is what I meant that I understood was already the case

JJames It's a great start, don't get me wrong. But it's still not enough in my opinion.

DarkDeviL•8/21/23, 11:19 PM

It has literally been like that since the beginning of the Domain Lockdown.

I do however perfectly agree to the stuff "not enough"!

I would personally be happy as well, if no email providers allowed sending on behalf of my domains, except explicitly authorised.

Explicitly authorised could for example have been something like the stuff I mentioned in https://discord.com/channels/595317990191398933/812577823599755274/1140785631681855578 + 2 following posts, or a lot of other, different options.

James•8/21/23, 11:20 PM

For me personally, outside of the actual issue which is still a huge problem imo and basic identiy needs to be an enforced requirement ASAP, the way MailChannels handled this makes it very difficult for me to seriously recommend them. The response to the issue, the communication, the knowledge since 2016 with only being "fixed" after public pressure, etc. just doesn't give me a lot of confidence in a company I'd be trusting to send emails for me. If they do a big educational campaign about this and commit to some timeline of enforcing some basic sender domain verification, that might change, but until then I'm almost certainly going to continue recommending other solutions that have shown more care for their customer security.

Ffiirhok You can use "v=mc1" to completely prevent us from sending from your domain. Even...

DarkDeviL•8/21/23, 11:30 PM

At that point, I would agree with completely with @James, if I'm understanding him well, that his opinion is that it shouldn't be necessary for me to add any arbitrary, and per-individual provider DNS records, to prevent MailChannels from allowing it's customers to impersonate my domain.

Somehow, I'm thinking to that part:

What if (all) other providers started mandating the same, which would be a per-provider specific record to prevent the sending?

skoogeer•8/21/23, 11:36 PM

There are many valid reasons why someone will send emails "from" a domain they do not control, which is why the authors of RFC5321 said this:

"Efforts to make it more difficult for users to set envelope return
path and header "From" fields to point to valid addresses other than
their own are largely misguided: they frustrate legitimate
applications in which mail is sent by one user on behalf of another,
in which error (or normal) replies should be directed to a special
address, or in which a single message is sent to multiple recipients
on different hosts."

Purely transactional email services assume that you control your domain; these services are not used for sending general purpose email such as forwarded traffic or discussion list traffic. MailChannels operates a general purpose mail relay service. Only the Cloudflare API is purely transactional, which is why it was appropriate for us to roll out Domain Lockdown there. As for the rest of the infrastructure, we will make it easy for people to use Domain Lockdown if they want to prevent others from sending on behalf of their domain; however, we will caution that doing so will prevent email from their domain from being forwarded - for instance via a discussion list or mail forwarding setup on a hosting box.

skoogeer•8/21/23, 11:37 PM

Nora, not sure what you mean here. Domain Lockdown went into effect June 20th. Legacy Workers accounts were allowed a grace period (which ended last week), but all others have had to validate their domain ownership with Lockdown since June 20th.

Sskoogeer There are many valid reasons why someone will send emails "from" a domain they d...

James•8/21/23, 11:38 PM

Quoting an RFC really isn't helpful when other providers don't have this issue and allow others to spoof my domain by default without additional steps I have to take

Y'all really need to own this, and it's very disheartening that you're not.

James•8/21/23, 11:39 PM

"We f'ed up, we know that, we're working on fixing it, stay tuned for updates in X time". That's all it would take. Do the right thing for your customers here, please.

James•8/21/23, 11:39 PM

All you're doing at the moment is destroying trust.

DDarkDeviL At that point, I would agree with completely with @James, if I'm understanding h...

skoogeer•8/21/23, 11:47 PM

@nora I'd like to understand you better. What do you mean when you say "Then it's revealed that such a basic safety mechanism had not been thought of."?

Sskoogeer @nora I'd like to understand you better. What do you mean when you say "Then it'...

James•8/21/23, 11:49 PM

I don't want to put words in their mouth, but I think what they're pointing to is something as basic as sender domain verfication that without, allows anyone to send from their domain without them taking additional steps themselves (domain lockdown record) and even realising that it's an issue.

James•8/21/23, 11:50 PM

Basic security so that only my account can send from my domain should be standard, not some obscure opt-in DNS record

I installed it on both ends, still nothing sadly

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