Timeless Fashion - Topic of the day 8/28/23
What is timeless fashion, anyway? Is it real? What did you get thinking it was timeless and now don’t like? What did you used to hate and now love?
426 Replies
Rick Owens 2004, 2013, and 2023
Rick king of timelessness?
2004 is Women's RTW to be fair
In all seriousness, more avant guarde fashion is likely to be more timeless, by virtue of existing outside of mainstream trends inherently.
Timeless fashion isn't real, even the articles about "timeless fashion" are geezers dressing in relatively middle of the road trad that they started dressing in when those cuts were in style. The cuts are still dated but because they are now old so it doesn't look out of place, thats my hot take.
Definetly fell into the skinny trap for a bit, and disliked baggy clothing. Little did I know I would really like it.
Something I think worth remembering is people don't laugh at the good examples of trends 10-20 years down the line. Just like SLP still is an asthetic that has good looks (Hedi being a one trick pony aside), there are lots of cool drapy shit from the 90s and Y2K that are being called back to now, and people are mocking the weird workwear skinny fit that dominated fashion. When skinny fit comes back while I suspect it will be very different than the skinny fit of the 2010s, the callbacks aren't gonna be to the shitty stuff, but to SLP and similar aesthetics.
Red flannel, band tee, Levi’s 501s, and doc martens/chucks is my nomination for timeless
Also worrying about timelessness is boring, you'll always find something to laugh about later, whether its the hair, the clothes, the cars, the music, so don't worry about how you'll look back on things, worry about enjoying them.
absolutely not, lest ye forget the post-larry disco gay era
Gotta disagree here because designer brands are looked at by the entire industry to start/popularize trends
Good take, though I think designers tend to have language that persists over time even as things change, and theres the house style that most of the big houses expect their designers to respect even if designers change
but "timeless" is overall a lie imo
I think designers are so in conversation with each other/themselves/fashion history/future that it’s hard to make any real generalizations
There are some designers that have been working the same concepts over for long periods
But I doubt they would think of their early work the same way they do their current work
Denim and plain tee and sneakers or boots has been going strong for a century though
Workwear is timeless
I think what unf is thinking of is that avant garde designers’ pieces are timeless because they are such high art pieces that they don’t look outdated. Pair a 2006 YY blazer with a modern YY trouser and it will still look cohesive. Same with Rick. You can mix and match all Rick despite when it was designed and it’ll still look intentional. You can’t say that about many mall brands
But even a lot of the mainstream things people say are timeless today are just in right now
Timeless fashion feels defined by the person, something u can wear over a lifetime may not match what someone else can
You cannot mix and match all rick is what i'm saying, his style and seasons have changed so much because he experiments like a mad man even when people are asking him to stop and just make the good things again
This IMO
At the end of the day it’s what u like that matters and elevating that as much as possible
I think to his vision you may not but I genuinely think to a creative person you can. Artists’ intent may not be the same as wearer’s intent
All the Rick heads will tell you that a lot of Rick doesn’t work with a lot of other Rick
There’s the staples that have been around forever though
Like dickflaps
Not just the Rick heads…
Yeah rick has a forever line of basics for a reason
I uh
Regarding Rick I think just bc u may not be able to wear every piece with every piece there is still more or less one idea that is carried throughout all the seasons
Granted a lot of his colors work excellently together
Don’t really get the obsession with timelessness in fashion
its 2010s marketing
imo
but he has soooo many varied cuts and styles that matching them poorly is like incredibly common
It’s good that trends are cyclical
like its not real, its not important, its a really boring way to look at fashion
imo
People want to be able to buy one thing for the rest of their lives and not care
Even the type of stuff we associate with workwear isn’t timeless. Chore coats weren’t popular in the 90s - 10s for example. Heritage boots aren’t popular right now as another example
Not trying to derail the discussion but I agree, it’s a buzzword for people to feel better about putting less effort into what they wear
I think in spaces like this it comes from an interest in just not having to think about fashion but looking decent anyway
Going from default outfit of gym shorts + graphic tee to default outfit of timeless pant + timeless shirt
the irony being that part of what causes trends is people never moving on from their default outfits
It’s like with everything, people want it distilled as much as possible so they can wear the same thing daily and look better than the average Joe
I think humans like wearing different things
100%
Very funny happening
Controversial
If demonstrating intention is a major part of fashion, then something reaching saturation reduces the sense of intention
So you move to something that demonstrates new intent
fashion is always in conversation with itself
as you said
I think everyone here just agrees timelessness doesn’t exist
You could absolutely get by just changing the fit of your jeans and tee slightly every few years
And there’s a middle ground that’s pretty much always within the fit Overton window
The only thing you need to stay relevant is a cute new pair of glasses frames every once and a while
So true
What if I don’t wear glasses
You do now
I know it’s dumb
Clear lenses
But I always wanted to wear them
Think I’d be way hotter
With BCGs
ya fuck you
glasses suck
How about some sunglasses iral
Glasses is how u sexcessorize
Nah glasses are great I hate not wearing mine
glasses suck
make sunglasses a pain
Can’t wear them indoors
Unless you have massive swag
need them 24/7
(I am swagless)
U just gotta get those clip on sunglass lenses
Those r so cool
i gotta get lasic
thats what I gotta do
Simply see better
Isn’t it with a k
Lasik
it might be
Idk
theres also like 3 other options
He can’t read anyway without his glasses
that aren't lasik but do the same thing
unironically true
The actual procedure of lasik disturbs me
me too
Thankfully my vision is better than 20/20
ok lets not derail this channel tho lol
The fact that the doctors who do lasik don’t get lasik worries me
Glasses r timeless fashion
I think we’re still on topic
Can’t get dressed if u can’t see
Yeah you can
some people have proved that
You know what is timeless
A nice hem on your pants to make them fit
Thought you were gonna do a deez nuts joke tbh
Now that’s timeless
BUT HOW FAR SHOULD I HEM??
Drip is timeless
Swag is temporary
Swag is for men
anyway, I remember buying a jean jacket thinking it was a timeless staple but now i never wear it because it makes me feel like a college student
Timelessness feels like a generational thing
Unironically I feel like there have been so many iterations of some articles of clothing that a lot of cuts are timeless now as you could make the case for intentionally referencing a period of time
College kids are timeless
I’ve very recently finding ways to wear my denim jacket again
Every new generation is chasing trends but my clothes are timeless
Likewise I used to think blazers were dumb but now that i'm a professional adult person man i love them
They’ve changed the cut of 501s so really that’s not even timeless
I think a jean jacket over a collared shirt and tie is a cool look
Me too
I learned that there are more blazer types than just the regular suit jacket sport coat looking ones and that’s when I decided to like blazers
I missed Rick discussion rip lmao I'm wearing mix and match today
I had a crazy 5 button blazer when I was like 16 that I really did not know how to wear
I love casual blazer + shorts sets
Was kinda dope though I could make it work today
Jean jacket over band tee tucked into jeans and wearing docs is the timeless shoegazer
ya man a light unstructure cotton blazer is like my favorite jacket now
I found the shorts for my TS(s) jacket but they're not my size 😦
so versatile! so timeless!
really want to add blazers and ties to my style but don't know how to not make it ivy
well i want a asymetric blazer or bedford to start
ties im a lot less confident about
That’s kinda hard with ties but there are a lot of blazers that u can do that with
Bolo ties maybe? Lol
u can make it ivy isn't that like one of your favorite styles
no, i lean more prep but god i don't wanna go full ivy
i need more tattoos for that
id say while i really like calling to prep in my style streetwear is definitely my main style these days
You can do streetwear influenced stuff with ties and blazers for sure
I’d think about twists on school uniforms as a starting point
good looks
Get the fresh prince blazer
i think i need a blazer esc piece rn
ivy and tattoos?
i live in new england, pure ivy would just make me look insufferable
(more than I already am)
To make it feel counterculture instead of culture
I get where you’re coming from but modern ivy already is counterculture. It was worn by civil rights activists and jazz musicians, and now a lot of ivy dressers have ties to punk/alternative music
I don’t think you need tattoos to make it counterculture
quick question? You live/grow up in new england?
Need? No
But it’s one route
i can assure you noone here views ivy as counterculture lol
I grew up in Maryland but my family is from Connecticut/New York, so kind of?
fair enough
i think ivy can be made counterculture
Yeah but most people there also don’t actually dress ivy
thers some really cool ivy looks i like
pure ivy isn't an interest of mine
the tattoos was a joke
lol
i mean i need more tattoos but it was a joke about how i view ivy
Nah I get you
I really like pure ivy so I had to jump in
i like pure ivy
just don't want to dress in it
want to reference it
Origins of ivy were fairly counterculture of the time. Alot of aspects were dressing down of the standard wear
yall missing the point here lol, im aware of the history, I really like Art's recent ivy inspired kick, I really like seeing what Ethan does
its still not me
Ethan isn’t really that ivy..
Who’s art though I’d be interested to see fits
@artvandelayexporting lol, its only ivy inspired
I feel like art is workwear Americana more
hes been doing a lot of stuff over shirt and ties recently
I consider myself to be in the venn diagram of workwear/americana/ivy
recently anyway
I get what your saying. I guess what my point was that being counter culture is an aspect of ivy wear from the start and modifying to different tastes seems natural
Exactly
And that’s timeless baby
Even if the clothes stay the same, the context changes
That’s fashion
Obviously timeless is a bit of a meme but i think there are some classics that can be worn at any given time and look good and not terribly dated
The most timeless thing about fashion is that its always changing 
I think timeless regarding fit is ridiculous but i think specific items can kinda find a place where they dont fade out of style
Have you guys ever heard of Killshots? 
Cycle is trend forms-> becomes mainstream-> new trend forms -> repeat indefinitely, thats timeless
guys what about business casual
Some of y’all timeless cause you haven’t been dated 
think this kind of thing is “timeless” aside from fit
think this kind of thing is “timeless” aside from fitBusiness casual is such a vague genre especially now i think its kind of hard to classify as timeless
Tired of seeing polyester in the workplace
Make it stop
free them
honestly i dont see any issue with polyester anymore
but dress sneakers need to go
Whatever I’m wearing is business casual because I’m in the business of keeping it casual 😎
I really dislike stretchy clothing personally
Your waywt is more buisness formal for an auto mechanic
whats an example of this im very curious. would the bedford jacket count?
Yeah I would say so
Any jacket that isn’t used in traditional tailoring I’d say
Even something like this
thanks for the desc and example!
Something like that would be hard to wear without the matching pants imo
I don’t think so
You could wear any interesting black pants
Wide yohji pants, a skirt, issey miyake pleats
Super high cropped capris in a wool material etc
Mismatched blacks
I think Yohji pants would look weird with this bc the jacket doesn’t really have a lot of shape and a wide bottom like that would look like a box with 2 billowy legs
A skirt could be fun but a jacket or blazer with more texture would make it a lot more interesting imo
I just think a black suit jacket is hard to wear without matching black pants
I think the boxiness of the jacket brings enough visual interest to wear something interesting underneath
Like it’s a slightly abnormal silhouette
Could be good over a dress
It looks pretty standard to me, maybe skinner lapels than normal on a boxy jacket
Over a dress could be cool
Normally I’d agree that you shouldn’t wear mismatched black fabric but it isn’t classic tailoring and it isn’t a suit. In a sense a lot of avant garde runway stuff are black fabrics that don’t match perfectly
Yea def not that wild but the padded shoulder brings out a boxy silhouette I like
Cool with shorts too probably
Matching blacks was like peak r/streetwear neuroticism
I think in 99% of scenarios a structured black jacket looks out of place without matching pants
For a suit I’d agree
I feel like it wants to be balenciaga but isn’t bold enough
bal didn't invent the boxy suit
david byrne did
Yeah David did
Where did I say they did
erik gets it
There are a lot of boxy black suit takes that aren’t bal
I think it works but it’s not braindead easy
Well that’s just not the MFA way
We need a color hand drawn infographic about this
Okay ping me in an hour I’ll try
Man this thread has really gone off the rails
I mean it’s Lemaire so it’s its own thing
That’s lemaire? Wild
I would’ve expected more exaggerated or less structure
That’s so middle ground
Is this their styling?
No it’s tres bien styling
Yea I’d expect more of a drop and drape shoulder
Just so boring for them, garment won’t move when the person is walking
That’s the point of a boxy stiff jacket
Yeah, that’s like the antithesis of lemaire imo
Yeah true, different vibe from the usual drapey stuff
I'm going to assume the back of that blazer drapes beautifully
I do wonder how much timelessness and simplicity are related
In the sense that you can always look boring, maybe
tres bien occasionally has awful styling. those lemaire jackets are great - most blazers are gonna look like shit with both buttons fastened like that
I mean it started with posting Rick, it was never going to end well
Yeah really it’s Unf’s fault
I like that styling lol
Reminds me of SSense styling
@artvandelayexporting tbh bro you’re one of the most timeless dressers here
A beautiful blend of styles that will last for decades to come 🙂
So mfa-pilled I thought this was a roast at first
Thank you Iral
idk, i think 'timeless' is 50% marketing ("buy our timeless clothing that will never look outdated - cool, etc etc) and 50% a way of people trying to make pretty inoffensive/basic clothing sound a bit more exciting
That's not to say that I think said items don't age/look dated - of course they do, because fits and styles and details change over the years, but perhaps said basic items at least look 'undated' (for want of a better term) for a little while longer than if you were to look at items which lean more heavily into trends
e.g. a straight fit jean is not going to be 'timeless' because, again, details and fits and and style change over time regardless, BUT it's more likely to not stand out as looking like it's come from a specific time period in comparison to, say, a pair of skinny jeans, or a pair of super wide jeans
idk im just thinking out loud - and I think @smiiles. 's point earlier about avant garde fashion is a pretty good one which runs contrary to whatever I've just rambled on about above
Nah totally genuine your fits rock bro I always love tha posts
actually, i see some problems with this line of thinking - because these things are constantly changing and there's very rarely some static middleground to latch on to - a straight fit was not the middle ground when skinny jeans were fully in...
idk, maybe just enjoy clothes and take solace in the fact that trends/fashions are constantly changing because that's actually exciting - if things were truly 'timeless' then it'd be a pretty boring thing to be into...
not sure if its been said yet but timeless rhetoric always tries to feel like youve "won" fashion. In reality, there's nothing wrong with being dated. In fact, being anachronistic and sticking to personal taste is a way to exist OUTSIDE of time because its about consistency (like the rick post at the top of the thread). thats better than trying to be the middle ground all the time which tends to just feel mediocre, sad, and lackluster
Timelessness as a marketing term is basically about convincing middle-class people that the clothing they buy is a sensible "investment". It is kind of simmilar to clothing or items that market themselve as durable
I think photos becoming a bit dated is also kinda fun in some way
yes exactly! like it fits into things just becoming aesthetics.
the look of "timeless fashion" is just "mid 20s urban professional who uses reddit for advice"
even if your outfit is made of basics
that wont stop you from becoming a label/stereotype in some way
Buy watches so you don't have to be timeless
Ironically I feel like watches tend to be something that are less trend based
I do feel like I would look for something more versatile or timeless though when spending a lot of money on some items though. Like for example nice leather shoes or a coat.
I feel like watches are pretty trend based but they have their own trend cycles
There are definitely watch trends
Cartier big rn
The timex weekender was about equal to the nike killshot in terms of overdone mfa staples imo
Yeah but that’s a watch not a watch
oh
Spending $25 on a weekender that you may or may not wear for years is definitely less of a thought than spending 10k on a sub that you’re gonna wear the rest of your life
In the same spirit, I feel like pricier pieces of clothing often have a more timeless quality to them
Or at least they should lmao
What quality makes them more timeless?
I worded that weird
can we bring it back to rick for a counterexample to this
They are more expensive
Rick is a great counter example but I mean like a good leather jacket
Some things are expensive and last a long time and because of that are somewhat outside of trend cycles
Boy do i have some dumb rick leathers for u
Yeah I feel like timelessnes is in some way related to items with a higher base cost
the guys who bought them don't want to move on
Like really good tailoring on a suit
Like categories of clothing
It’ll always look good
This is the classic mfa/fmf/bifl trap
It might not be on trend but it will be flattering
if you do it right
There’s no actual relationship between the two concepts
Oh I know there isn’t lmao
Look at the cover image of this thread. People thought their wigs and bibs were flattering as hell
What I mean is that trend cycles tend to be slower for things that cost more at a base level.
This
Because people are more conservative in these areas
Rich people love trends tho
and participating in trends with an air of superiority bc some luxury house made a version of it
Of course because they can afford to be trendy with expensive items
Yeah I think it’s more just that there are specific things that tradition is a major part of
This isn’t what I mean by expensive items
?
I mean expensive because it has to be because of its construction
And the passionate makers in those areas make expensive things
This is what I mean
I’d say there are certainly visual ideas in fashion that have persisted for quite a while. Like the idea of a white base layer w ornamentation at the neck under a matching fabric jacket and bottom wear is quite old, even as the specific white base layer and jackets have changed over time
True tradition is a big part of this.
It’s that they are inherently traditional that leads to the idea that they are timeless
I would argue that it is also a bit of a cost thing.
You can always be a part of this group that always dresses this way
me in my timeless well tailored suit:
I guess the most extreme example I can think of for this is like a graduation gown it’s extremely traditional and so will never be dated
BUT if worn in the wrong situation will look stupid
Cost is purely side effect imo
It all follows from the traditionalism
Question for the room: how much does actual use within a situation effect the idea of timelessness
And the nature of niche hobbies
Like overalls is a timeless look for a farmer
A suit is a timeless look for a businessman
All I'm saying is that trend cycles tend to be longer from category to category
Sure but it’s not by price imo
There’s a whole range of denim and tee and leather jacket
if you define price to not mean price it is!
And there will always be people dressed like that
So you can be part of that group and be timeless in a sense
you don't understand these white leather sneakers were $400 of course they're timeless
But you can do it with thrifted engineers and Levi’s and a target tee
i spent $1000 on these workboots wym they aren't timeless?
Or you can get nicks customs and Japanese repros and falcon garments and Merz tee
I don't think it's based on the singular item like the 400 sneakers but more on the base price of a category
I just explained that’s not true though
how can you price a whole category
of clothing
Like suiting as a category
If you’re logging they are
Has every price range
If you’re walking in NYC you’re an idiot
And has every fit at every price range
but thats not fashionable lol
There are trendier brands and there are trad brands
Nah a dude logging in Whites looks sick af
True but a decent suit costs more than a decent t-shirt
me in BDUs as a soldier "man I am winning fashion"
"Look exactly like a soldier should"
That is a completely different point
Well yeah it’s more clothing and more work lol
Like u took what u said then just extrapolated it to a different idea
have we settled on the idea that equating cost to timelessness is silly yet
NO
Categories that move slower wrt to trends do so because of culture foremost
That’s all I’m saying
Wrt is with respect to?
Saying a more expensive thing is more timeless because of the cost is just copium I’m afraid
I could have it the other way around and people are just more willing to spend more on some pieces because trends move slower
Actual question I swear
That is not what I meant
Yeah that can and is true in trad categories
Yeah
But that’s what I meant saying that the cost is a side effect
It’s incidental
I wasn't saying that sneaker 1 is more timeless than sneaker 2 because sneaker 1 is more expensive
I feel like everyone is trying to say timeless is half what something looks like and half build quality, an increase in build quality leads to a more expensive product. That makes some expensive products more timeless than other products at the same price
I kinda agree with kissgo in the sense that an average person’s $400 purchase is meant to be more timeless to them than their $50 purchase. Now is that actually true or just a fallacy is another question in itself
issa fallacy
I do feel like there is less movement is some categories than others though because making a decent item is just more expensive. Leather jackets could be a good example of this on a more casual level
Like I’m sure the average person would rather spend $500 on a pair of wild red polka dot Goodyear welt boots than $500 on those mschf red boots because perception of quality and timelessness
I actually disagree bc the avg person cares about showing wealth to some degree
The mschf boots could almost be a status symbol
really
I also think the average person would be more willing to take some risks on the colour of a t-shirt than on the colour of a suit
Ik loads of dudes that dropped a bunch of money on a Louis belt or shoes, that’s just to flex they don’t care about quality. There’s a divide in cost, some is flex, some is actual quality
Same thing as buying Gucci loafers vs John Lobbs or Loakes
people have greater associations between lv/gucci and quality than mschf
But I think the same people see Gucci loafers as just as timeless as a nice artisan pair. They would go for the Gucci loafers over mschf
Mschf shoes are like the definition of a short lived trend and that’s known by all
also have you seen what they look like
I will say, the Gucci bit loafer is an iconic design
Also Gucci vs supreme I think people will choose more on Gucci for perception of timelessness
If they were the same price which they obv are not
You mean timeless
I purposefully did not say that word
Basically my point can be summed up as the more expensive a category of items becomes the more conservative people become when selecting something. I feel like the length of trend cycles also deepens on how often people buy something from that category
and we don't agree lol
We don't have to
All I'm saying is that I've never seen boxershorts advertised as timeless
i honestly think this overplays how much the average person looks for things which are timeless, and downplays how much the average person just buys something because they currently think it looks cool - i think the whole timeless aesthetic market is probably a lot smaller than the brands who push it would have you believe
If the clothes were truly timeless the market would dwindle over time
think its very much a specific price range of not too expensive (luxury customers don't care about this) and not too cheap (people care less about it), like the $100-300 range which is the sweet spot of "I want to spend a bit more on clothes"
basically its a specific marketing
Yeah it's just another way of saying "buy this shirt because it will look good on you in a variety of situations"
Unless it's hyper specifically marketed for its long-lasting durability or bifl status or whatever I don't think anyone going "huh yeah timeless cool" genuinely believes a garment will last them until the end of time
don't tell GYW
i've heard more about timeless from mfa lurkers randomly gathering to rant about wide fits then before i ever browsed mfa
aka none at all 💀
I say this fully believing I will wear my beloved guidis to the grave
It's a value proposition
It's a lie
yeah it's marketing
To ethan's earlier point, looking of a time is cool and demonstrates effort, intentionality, and an understanding of fashion history which are all the things timeless dressing markets itself to do but doesn't actually do
Fwiw in regards to suiting the average person doesn’t even know they are buying a trendy suit
They just go into an HM and pay 75 dollars then go to a wedding
i feel like i'm always talking about the same thing but any time you start talking about regular people who stumble on MFA and start looking for a solution to fashion where they can buy everything once and stop caring you're talking about a completely different universe than people who are interested in fashion
And the HM suit moved pretty much in line with the rest of fashion trends the last decade
what makes this hobby fun is looking for stuff that's not "timeless"
which doesn't exist blah blah
I do feel like some conflict in this community stems from the fact that clothes can be a hobby but are also a life skill
this is my thing
this is a hobby server and people are constantly confusing it for something else
but they can't be a life skill cause its constantly in flux
i put clothes on every day, sometimes multiple times
beyond just "wear a suit when a suit is required"
and i think the eternal timeless debate is a big side effect of that
ig
yeah i don't think they're a life skill per se more that everyone wears clothes
so people treat it the same way as researching the best appliance to buy on amazon
and if i'm buying a new toaster i don't want to have to buy a new one in a year
True but that can be the same thing some people are coffe nerds for example and some people just want to buy a reasonable coffe maker
Fashion is a hobby you’re participating in whether you like it or not
That’s the real conflict
i disagree!
i mean i know what you're saying
Your clothes are saying something even if you don’t know it
if you're wfh you can opt out i guess
Some people are car nerds and some people just need transportation
cam off
what about nudists they don't partake do they
No clothes is saying something too
i mean i guess, but i think people (men?) overestimate the extent to which what they wear affects their life
Humans judge each other
if they're uninterested in fashion
Well yes but that is a very specific thing and most nudists also wear clothes
men into fashion do the same i mean look at this place
People that are uninterested in clothes overestimate the importance of them?
well that's why it needs to be something that's purely for your enjoyment
I don't think that is possible
people who are uninterested in clothes yet end up here do
i should say
That makes more sense.
I would guess it's mostly about being dressed well enough and after that you hit dimminishing returns
ah but what's "well enough"
Clothing definitely a life skill cause I’ve met a lot of people who lack the skill
Totally possible to overestimate their importance and be uninterested, it’s a classic “nothing about my personality is bad it’s people judging me for xyz”
That was the problem with crocs’ original business strategy. They were too durable
True
which is why people end up here looking for someone to tell them what to go to the store to buy, once, so people will think they're cool
LMAO
Checklist living
Everything in life is ongoing
But damn would it be nice to cross something off once in a while
We need wirecutter but for clothing
I get it
that's basically the your best ___ for $$ threads
Call it something catchy but relevant to the seasons since you need different clothes for different weather. Maybe Gentleman's Quarterly or something similar?
Yeah I think the desire to be done with something makes sense. I do think that to a certain extent there is a skill involved in putting together good looking outfits. Even if what consitutes a good outfit is in flux
but since timelessness doesn't exist, all the people who just want to be done with it come back 5 years later, furious, because tastes changed
and they never cared enough to develop any kind of taste so they can't organically change their wardrobe
I think part of it is people don’t have enough to do 😂
I think that some things can be a little bit more "timeless" than MFA likes to give them credit for. Check out these articles from PTO written in 2012, which still giving surprisingly relevant advice on suit fit over a decade later:
https://putthison.com/how-a-suit-jacket-or-sport-coat-should-fit-a/
https://putthison.com/how-pants-should-fit-its-much-easier-to-get/
Yes, you can find highly upvoted comments on MFA 10 years ago about how the pants in that article are way too wide and dumb cuz not slim fit, but I think that to say that timelessness doesn't exist and leave it at that is missing some of the picture. There are some things, like a classic fitted suit (like in the article), a barbour bedale, straight fit denim, and GATs, that seem more immune to trends than other items.
If someone's interest in MFA is purely utilitarian ("I'm not into fashion but want to not dress bad") then seeking such clothing makes sense because they don't want to need to update their wardrobe in the future. Seeking "timeless" clothing is a min-max where, at least over time, effort is minimzied and "not looking bad" is satisfied. This isn't how most MFA regulars interact with fashion, and we don't like this approach, but it's one that lots of people who come here take and we should at least be cognizant of it. Not everyone needs to be into fashion.
they can only ask people to tell them what to buy all over again or stay the same in the knowledge that they look "wrong" but don't know enough to quite know why other than slim fit is out
And instead of admitting that they themselves didn’t care to keep up they blame the world for moving at its pace around them
if you yourself don't understand what looks good i don't quite understand the impulse to look good
yes yes i know everyone wants to feel like others perceive them as cool
people want the benefits of being well dressed
but if you're like i think other people think i look good but i don't know why that's weird to me
I do think it is often worth it to know why something is good instead of just knowing that something is good
to the example about cars there's a lot of people who are like i want a car that other people think is cool even though i don't care about it myself, but all those people are losers
and deserve to be made fun of
with clothing and with men's clothing specifically i don't think any potential benefit you would get is really that important
people who dress like garbage are very successful!
I mean I feel like you undertstate the power of clothing here.
what power! every manager i've had at work wears tan square toes with glued soles
everyone keep in mind i don't have a job so i don't have anything better to do but come on here and be spicy
But if they turned up to their job interview wearing sweatpants they would probably not be the manager now
yes but i don't think you need a subreddit to tell you not to do that
Fair
I think most normal people have some sense of self-consciousness that is stimulated by others' perception of them looking both good and bad. Hitting on that motivates most into some short-term activity like going to the mall to get a few new shirts or reinforces that activity if it's positive affirmation after the fact. If dudes are succeeding in life without any comment or wonder about their appearance I can understand never like thinking about it until a zoomer calls your jeans lame one day.
To some extent I do understand the frustration with trends a bit because some trends are artificial and based in marketing
I think some of the people who get most annoyed about timelessness (or the absence of it) are those who seem to think that they’re being told to dump their entire wardrobe because that jacket they love or those boots they’ve worn for years are off trend - but I think that this mentality can come from a place where someone is relatively new to caring about how they dress and assigning too much importance to the concept of the trend, like..there’s no requirement to jump into everything just because it’s the hot thing…whereas someone a bit more comfortable with their wardrobe can see it for what it is, maybe experiment here and there and just accept that things do change over time
(Sorry, another thinking aloud moment)
Also people come into a lot of clothing via gifting I feel like which probably does a lot to satisfy someone's sense of "I'm dressed at the very least" without challenging their sense of like identity too much
Probably loads of dudes out there just rocking whatever their parents bought them for their birthday
And that’s great! I hope they’re happy
The minute you start caring just enough about fashion to know you don’t look cool but not enough to want to learn how to look cool yourself you become miserable
Is my contention
Which is all the people who want to claim timelessness exists and is important
Yeah and I feel like a lot of fashion content just kind of reinforces this negative attitude. Like the screaming alpha m stuff and things of that nature
This is also the precious window of time where people buy ridiculous clothing that makes them look like an assassin's creed character and that's a pretty beautiful thing imo
the jordan peterson arc
the black mannequin era
that's so much better to me than people who just want to look "put together" and that's it
Exercise is similar, lotta people wanna look they work out without working out and learning how to work out in a healthy manner and there's a huge market for exploiting those people
Even though it's much more "solvable" than clothing
yeah i can imagine
Yeah Gap solved this issue decades ago I want more impressionable young men dressing like naruto in public
in all seriousness looking wack like that is more timeless
if you look bad ya just look bad
if you look good but for 2014 you look out of date
What if the true timeless look is 11 inch khaki cargo shorts and a Zelda tee
Fuck
what i dont get is why this is such a big deal and yet plenty of guys are able to go to jobs in tee shirts and shorts
people go on dates when one partner is dressed up and the other one is in a plain tee shirt and chino shorts
exactly!!
💯 💯 💯
so its like...where exactly is the *NEED to be fashionable??? people are just fine WITHOUT it
aka the strive to be timeless is dumb because people will be able to live
🗣️
nothing bad is going to happen to you
I think it stems from the harmful masculine self-improvement bull shit
you want cool friends who dress well? maybe get into clothing as a hobby then?
being stylish is not a right. being clothed is. and a tee shirt and jeans will get you through anything
you can't have it both ways. someone in here already said it: guys want all the benefits of being stylish without putting in effort
It’s talked about a lot as a base “you need to dress well to be a high quality man”. Which really just isn’t true at all.
but what are these benefits you want? they want to essentially be pick mes, they want everyone to take notice! but they also dont want to put in "more" effort than they should
god its so frustratingly stupid
Also even white collar businesses don’t care if you dress fashionable rather if you dress with checklist of items
Hence why slim suits are still well dressed in business settings
I think the biggest issue is that fashion and style is best when it’s a cultural or community thing. So many people are trying to “win” fashion online when the coolest way to dress is riffing off of people and communities that you are actually living in
Whether that’s a community you find or build
i really want someone to say what they definie as "winning" fashion or what they want to accomplish with timeless clothing
do you not want to buy new clothes every year? then don't!
you'll be timeless because you'll be effectively stuck wherever the last time you bought clothes was. see? you did it!
you dont wanna do that? then keep up. do it as a hobby. know that things aren't timeless and use it to help you find some self actualization.
I think that ideology is mostly the crowd of “I don’t care about fashion but i’m under the impression that i need to dress well to be a high quality man. Therefore i want a wardrobe i can build and then never have to think about again and always be fashionable.”
I’m with beans, it’s part of a larger “men will do anything except go to therapy” kind of thing
yup @ll.beansandrice and i have talked about this at length in the SaD discord
hes right
Not even a bit I think it’s also a little bit autism in some cases
Like it genuinely bothers me when my clothes don’t look right
I also think a lot of air gets used up talking about the fallacy of “timeless” that was sold as part of the 2010s style. It’s v much an MFA/millennial thing imo
This thread is at 538 comments so I gotta agree
Its good topic to waste air on imo
We had some off topic conversation
Arguing this topic is truly timeless
I knew it would be a high volume one
We love to bloviate
Tomorrow we’ll debate the best minimal white shoe
Speaking of which converse and their clones/spin offs are timeless and will never go out of style
versatility
This is a cross over take from yesterdays topic
We need a list of every OCBD color the average man needs to have
A white one and a second white one
For when i spill spaghetti on my first one
I was thinking this earlier but man i'm waiting for the day when I stop seeing converse run star motions everywhere
Blue and university stripe
That’s it
This is a bad take and I’m turning off notifications bye
None is my answer oops
I don’t own a single regular OCBD I think
Blue eyes gonna block Salem
I have a slim fit green one and a really big pink one 👍
not everyone can be a style god like u bb this is a tale of caution so these lads do not end up like jack dorsey or usher or countless others
They were all wearing stuff from the same era
I left notifications on
They’re just bad at dressing
isn't that the case with anything, ever
if you mix stuff together that looks bad it will look bad
i think it's if you mix good looking stuff together poorly it will end up bad
in this case we can blame their stylists but the rest of us have no excuses
I blame my stylist all the time
The problem is my stylist is me
That’s an excellent way to deflect blame and own up to it at the same time
Of course I know him, he’s me
Can you guys just tldr every article of timeless clothing for me so I can just buy them all and complete fashion once and for all
Everything Rick Owens has released
Every timeless wardrobe requires at least 2 pairs of hose, 2 pairs of breeches, a walking coat, a morning coat, a little vest to show off your pocket watch, and a nice tall hat for each season
And 4 pairs of Uniqlo color socks
to be fair uniqlo socks kinda fuck
Timeless fashion is what I wore today. In a meme sense it's black slim fit tee and jeans, in a serious sense, it's basic staples that are appropriate for your time
The only thing that's timeless is the conceptual shell of the wardrobe, not the actual pieces themselves
uh no sweety, actually its this
timeless is a losing battle
