actually before we make the decision on SilkX should we acutally just ship SilkX as SilkX and encour

P

PerkseyOP•10/19/23, 5:37 PM

that way we get some insights into how it actually feels

M

Maxine•10/19/23, 5:37 PM

sure

M

Maxine•10/19/23, 5:37 PM

please just give me something to use

M

Maxine•10/19/23, 5:37 PM

/lh

K

khitiara•10/19/23, 5:38 PM

honestly yes

K

khitiara•10/19/23, 5:38 PM

also idk what /lh means lmao

M

Maxine•10/19/23, 5:38 PM

lighthearted

K

khitiara•10/19/23, 5:38 PM

but yeah having it as a preview thing people can try is good

K

khitiara•10/19/23, 5:38 PM

ah ok

P

PerkseyOP•10/19/23, 6:12 PM

the thing is with super bleeding edge previews is noone really uses them, but as long as some people try them out we'll have some backing to some of the things we want to present to the WG

P

PerkseyOP•10/19/23, 6:13 PM

the bleeding edge preview will likely only have GLFW and OpenGL though

PPerksey actually before we make the decision on SilkX should we acutally just ship SilkX...

A

Aqua•10/19/23, 6:19 PM

i think this is a decent idea. as you know i am currently heavily opposed to the ptr structs idea however its hard to say concretely until you actually try it out, so some sort of preview could be quite beneficial

P

PerkseyOP•10/19/23, 6:19 PM

yeah exactly

P

PerkseyOP•10/19/23, 6:19 PM

a lot of people have principle-based arguments against what we're doing, and i don't really care about them so long as it's actually enjoyable to use in the field

A

Aqua•10/19/23, 6:21 PM

yep

A

Aqua•10/19/23, 6:22 PM

its the development experience that matters
... as well as everything else like speed and whatnot but ultimately it doesn't matter how fast something is if no one likes developing with it then no one will use it

A

Aqua•10/19/23, 6:23 PM

i'm trying to think objectively about this, subjectively my opinions are somewhat different, but the opportunity to actually use something rather than just see it written will offer an opportunity to those both for and against to see if it will actually work out or not

P

PerkseyOP•10/19/23, 10:19 PM

okay so maybe something like OpenTK PAL2 isn't the worst idea. again I wouldn't go for their implementation, and I still intend to go with the

libsilk

libsilk

libsilk

libsilk idea, but I'm just thinking about how I want the user experience to be and it feels like it does indeed necessitate something in Silk.NET.Core that looks similar to PAL2.

e.g. consider:

// If a "root surface" has already been created, we will use Surface.Current internally to create a "subsurface"
ISurface surface = Surface.CreateNew() // returns ISurfaceBuilder
    // requests in order of preference
    // equivalent to .RequestSingleton<T>(...) where T is a IComponentBuilder containing a HluComponentType that we use to discriminate (e.g. HluComponentType.Graphics)
    .RequestGraphics<IVkSurfaceBuilder>(
        ctx => ctx.WithVersion(1, 3)
            .WithSupportedInstanceExtensions<Silk.NET.Vulkan.ExtDebugUtils>() // in addition to the ones required to create the surface
            .Build()
    )
    .RequestGraphics<IGLContextBuilder>(
        ctx => ctx.WithVersion(4, 3)
            .WithProfile(OpenGLProfile.Core)
            .Build()
    )
    .Build();
// equivalent to .Singleton(HluComponentType.Graphics)
surface.Graphics() switch
{
    IGLContext ctx => Console.WriteLine("Using OpenGL"),
    IVkSurface surf => Console.WriteLine("Using Vulkan"),
    _ => throw new("no requests were able to be fulfilled")
};

// If a "root surface" has already been created, we will use Surface.Current internally to create a "subsurface"
ISurface surface = Surface.CreateNew() // returns ISurfaceBuilder
    // requests in order of preference
    // equivalent to .RequestSingleton<T>(...) where T is a IComponentBuilder containing a HluComponentType that we use to discriminate (e.g. HluComponentType.Graphics)
    .RequestGraphics<IVkSurfaceBuilder>(
        ctx => ctx.WithVersion(1, 3)
            .WithSupportedInstanceExtensions<Silk.NET.Vulkan.ExtDebugUtils>() // in addition to the ones required to create the surface
            .Build()
    )
    .RequestGraphics<IGLContextBuilder>(
        ctx => ctx.WithVersion(4, 3)
            .WithProfile(OpenGLProfile.Core)
            .Build()
    )
    .Build();
// equivalent to .Singleton(HluComponentType.Graphics)
surface.Graphics() switch
{
    IGLContext ctx => Console.WriteLine("Using OpenGL"),
    IVkSurface surf => Console.WriteLine("Using Vulkan"),
    _ => throw new("no requests were able to be fulfilled")
};

// If a "root surface" has already been created, we will use Surface.Current internally to create a "subsurface"
ISurface surface = Surface.CreateNew() // returns ISurfaceBuilder
    // requests in order of preference
    // equivalent to .RequestSingleton<T>(...) where T is a IComponentBuilder containing a HluComponentType that we use to discriminate (e.g. HluComponentType.Graphics)
    .RequestGraphics<IVkSurfaceBuilder>(
        ctx => ctx.WithVersion(1, 3)
            .WithSupportedInstanceExtensions<Silk.NET.Vulkan.ExtDebugUtils>() // in addition to the ones required to create the surface
            .Build()
    )
    .RequestGraphics<IGLContextBuilder>(
        ctx => ctx.WithVersion(4, 3)
            .WithProfile(OpenGLProfile.Core)
            .Build()
    )
    .Build();
// equivalent to .Singleton(HluComponentType.Graphics)
surface.Graphics() switch
{
    IGLContext ctx => Console.WriteLine("Using OpenGL"),
    IVkSurface surf => Console.WriteLine("Using Vulkan"),
    _ => throw new("no requests were able to be fulfilled")
};

// If a "root surface" has already been created, we will use Surface.Current internally to create a "subsurface"
ISurface surface = Surface.CreateNew() // returns ISurfaceBuilder
    // requests in order of preference
    // equivalent to .RequestSingleton<T>(...) where T is a IComponentBuilder containing a HluComponentType that we use to discriminate (e.g. HluComponentType.Graphics)
    .RequestGraphics<IVkSurfaceBuilder>(
        ctx => ctx.WithVersion(1, 3)
            .WithSupportedInstanceExtensions<Silk.NET.Vulkan.ExtDebugUtils>() // in addition to the ones required to create the surface
            .Build()
    )
    .RequestGraphics<IGLContextBuilder>(
        ctx => ctx.WithVersion(4, 3)
            .WithProfile(OpenGLProfile.Core)
            .Build()
    )
    .Build();
// equivalent to .Singleton(HluComponentType.Graphics)
surface.Graphics() switch
{
    IGLContext ctx => Console.WriteLine("Using OpenGL"),
    IVkSurface surf => Console.WriteLine("Using Vulkan"),
    _ => throw new("no requests were able to be fulfilled")
};

P

PerkseyOP•10/19/23, 10:20 PM

btw this would all look god tier with MS Hosting (cc @kaijellinghaus)

K

khitiara•10/19/23, 10:34 PM

oooo making things that work good with ms hosting

K

khitiara•10/19/23, 10:34 PM

I use it way too much on every project so I'm interested in that

D

dfkeenan🍍🍕•10/20/23, 12:46 AM

If the bleeding edge has webgpu might with it.

Still no idea why I am playing with webgpu.

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 12:47 AM

webgpu is great

P

PerkseyOP•10/20/23, 12:47 AM

WebGPU should be quite shrimple to add

D

dfkeenan🍍🍕•10/20/23, 12:52 AM

I have been meaning to ask. Is there such a thing as an audio API like webgpu.

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 12:52 AM

what would that entail

D

dfkeenan🍍🍕•10/20/23, 12:55 AM

By that I mean a abstraction layer like webgpu is for graphics APIs. I have seen OpenAL being used with emscripten.

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 12:55 AM

yea you probably want SDL_Audio

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 12:55 AM

or miniaudio (not really usable from C#)

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 12:55 AM

or SoLoud (kinda abandoned and not really usable from C#)

P

PerkseyOP•10/20/23, 12:56 AM

miniaudio just needs a bit of love to make some proper interop with it

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 12:56 AM

bit of love eg nuget hacks

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 12:57 AM

pulling in different packages per platform

P

PerkseyOP•10/20/23, 12:57 AM

I was more thinking autogenerating a heap allocation api but that could work as well

K

khitiara•10/20/23, 1:18 AM

or http://libsound.io which also not yet usable from c# but probably doable to make bindings

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 1:19 AM

at some point i want to try writing an audio engine, but i havent gotten around to it

K

khitiara•10/20/23, 1:20 AM

gl

K

khitiara•10/20/23, 1:20 AM

ive been interested in that too but to no avail as of yet

K

khitiara•10/20/23, 1:20 AM

turns out audio is really a mess when it comes to xplat things

P

PerkseyOP•10/20/23, 1:20 AM

Someone should port miniaudio to C#

Kkhitiara turns out audio is really a mess when it comes to xplat things

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 1:21 AM

im planning on building it off mach sysaudio, so i dont have to fight the lowest level of xplat

PPerksey Someone should port miniaudio to C#

P

PerkseyOP•10/20/23, 1:21 AM

A fully managed version of that would be sick

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 1:21 AM

that would require a lot more audio bindings than we currently provide lmao

K

khitiara•10/20/23, 1:21 AM

yeah

K

khitiara•10/20/23, 1:22 AM

that would require binding to every one of the individual audio backends

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 1:22 AM

we already have the windows ones and JACK

P

PerkseyOP•10/20/23, 1:22 AM

ez just use SilkTouchX

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/20/23, 1:22 AM

i wish JACK was integrated better into OSes that werent linux its so fucking good

K

khitiara•10/20/23, 1:23 AM

ikr

M

Maxine•10/20/23, 1:24 AM

audio drivers need to be signed, which is a pain

actually before we make the decision on SilkX should we acutally just ship SilkX as SilkX and encour

Similar Threads

Similar Threads

Similar Threads