VPforce Controls•3y ago

hi,@walmis, to add to issue @virusam is reporting: - vpforce hw trim gets reset on P47 / Mossie when

hi,@walmis, to add to issue @virusam is reporting:

vpforce hw trim gets reset on P47 / Mossie when the aircraft reaches around ~110-120mph airspeed on landing, essentially making landing on hw trim a pretty dangerous affair
I'm not sure if you're aware of this issue, or seen anyone reporting it..

Ppeachmonkey hi,@walmis, to add to issue @virusam is reporting: - vpforce hw trim gets reset ...

walmis•10/20/23, 3:50 PM

You mean hw trim with override?

peachmonkeyOP•10/20/23, 3:51 PM

yup, that one..

peachmonkeyOP•10/20/23, 3:51 PM

when it overrides the spring center in the AC, for some reason it resets to DCS's spring center at slow speed..

peachmonkeyOP•10/20/23, 3:52 PM

you can feel the stick forcefully move in your hand...

walmis•10/20/23, 3:56 PM

I'll check, maybe DCS resets it somehow

peachmonkeyOP•10/20/23, 3:56 PM

I appreciate it, @walmis ! thank you, sir.

Virus•10/20/23, 4:51 PM

I solved it @peachmonkey it was breakout force for me

VVirus I solved it @peachmonkey it was breakout force for me

peachmonkeyOP•10/20/23, 7:24 PM

gotcha, i'm not using the breakout force, so it's a different issue it seems..

Spatz•10/21/23, 5:37 PM

So I need to check Force Trim in the VP configuration Tool to be able to FFB Trim Helis in DCS right?

SSpatz So I need to check Force Trim in the VP configuration Tool to be able to FFB Tr...

Number481•10/21/23, 5:58 PM

In DCS? No.
DCS implements FFB (and force trim) natively. Some helicopters (like the Mi-24) also have hat-trimmers.. that all works without any special config in vpconf.

SSpatz So I need to check Force Trim in the VP configuration Tool to be able to FFB Tr...

peachmonkeyOP•10/21/23, 7:56 PM

DCS units come with Trim function on FFB axis and if it works then everything is OK.

However, on some units (ww2 planes, some jets) if you use the trim on FFB axis it also moves the FFB center which messes everything up. For these cases it's better to use a "HW trim + override" in VPforce app (instead of in-game trim), that way FFB center stays where its supposed to be.

Spatz•10/21/23, 7:58 PM

Do I need to do something special for the Huey? I managed to Hold Trim in the Apache but somehow cant trim in the Huey

SSpatz Do I need to do something special for the Huey? I managed to Hold Trim in the Ap...

Number481•10/21/23, 8:01 PM

Just gotta make sure you have the right trimmer mode selected in the special options. For the Huey I think you want “default” (check the #VPforce Rhino WIP Manual

… there’s screenshots of the various DCS heli settings in there). Not in front of my pc atm.

Spatz•10/21/23, 8:05 PM

Okay will do - thanks a lot - that was wrong - I've set it to FFB mode

Number481•10/21/23, 8:06 PM

Ya.. the “without springs and FFB” option is poor English that seems to be interpreted differently by different developers.

Spatz•10/21/23, 8:06 PM

The Hind is not in the Manual?!

Number481•10/21/23, 8:07 PM

ALL heli modules work with with either default or instant settings. SOME helis also work with the “without springs and FFB” option.

Ppeachmonkey DCS units come with Trim function on FFB axis and if it works then everything is...

sydost•10/21/23, 8:26 PM

Interesting. Can you give some examples which modules do this? (the cases in which it’s better to use “HW trim + override”

Ssydost Interesting. Can you give some examples which modules do this? (the cases in whi...

peachmonkeyOP•10/22/23, 12:29 AM

i fly ww2, so try p47 and mosquito

mark turner•10/22/23, 2:18 PM

Hi Walmis, a couple of weeks back (13th Oct) , you kindly gave me some settings to try to offset the weight of the TM metal grip I was using and to stop the oscillations. They worked great, BUT.......I have decided not to use the grip after a week or so, as I basically need one with more buttons, so swapped in a Virpil Alpha I have. Now, I need to un do those or adjust them to suit the lighter grip. I am going to save a profile for future possible use etc of your settings for the heavy grip. What would you adjust on your advised settings & by how much ( and why if you can explain, as its good to understand what I am doing rather than just blindly do it) to suit the lighter grip? Many thanks for your continued amazing support and customer service.......

Mmark turner Hi Walmis, a couple of weeks back (13th Oct) , you kindly gave me some settings ...

PiNKSH!T•10/22/23, 2:20 PM

Yeah I have a lighter grip also & had some instability that got the x axis motor to self protect, so I'd be kneen to know what to change & why.

Hextopia•10/22/23, 4:27 PM

Does anyone have an idea of what approximate settings need to be used for the 'balance spring' force to balance out a given grip weight on a given extension length?

Hextopia•10/22/23, 4:27 PM

Or is it just the 'TFAR' method?

HHextopia Does anyone have an idea of what approximate settings need to be used for the 'b...

Number481•10/22/23, 4:30 PM

'try it and find out' is probably a good approach... but I'll just say that the "adaptive recentering" does a fine job by itself with my Alpha Prime grip sitting on a virpil z extension.

Hextopia•10/22/23, 4:35 PM

It did alright with a 100mm extension, now that I'm running a 32cm extension at anything beyond about ~50% of the axis in any direction it's drooping enough that it's screwing up autopilot in multiple aircraft

Hextopia•10/22/23, 4:36 PM

So some extra centering force is going to be needed

Hextopia•10/22/23, 4:38 PM

It also tends to oscillate sometimes, so some tweaks to friction are needed

walmis•10/22/23, 4:41 PM

My approach to find the values to balance spring is to disable the regular spring, so the stick is limp. Then increase the balance spring values in each direction and check if stick wants to fall when released at an angle. Once it roughly stays in place where you put it, then you're good to go.

Hextopia•10/22/23, 4:44 PM

Using that method, looks like I need about ~25% for balance spring to counteract most of the droop, which might explain why adaptive recenter wasn't quite cutting it

HHextopia Using that method, looks like I need about ~25% for balance spring to counteract...

walmis•10/22/23, 4:45 PM

Yeah, once you apply some balance spring, the adaptive recentering will have more authority and will not saturate as before.

Hextopia•10/22/23, 4:55 PM

I'm still running into an issue with oscillation in the X axis that tweaking the damper/friction forces isn't making a dent in

Hextopia•10/22/23, 4:57 PM

Reducing the spring gain map for the X axis can fix it, but I'm worried that will affect the droop issue in that axis

walmis•10/22/23, 4:59 PM

Can you show your settings?

Hextopia•10/22/23, 8:56 PM

I will when I get some time back at my computer. I'm going to test the settings I have right now and see how it performs, since I reduced the max gain in the X to eliminate the oscillation

amadeus•10/22/23, 9:56 PM

so i've noticed kind of an interesting issue, that i think my be a software thing, where the spring forces can seem to apply inconsistent force as you move towards the extremities of the movement. it's a bit subtle, but it does show up in my virpl graphs:

amadeus•10/22/23, 9:57 PM

basically it kinda feel like i hit a small amount of resistance bump before breaking through to the edge, this is close to the outer edge of the movement (this is with 100% spring strength, default gain map

amadeus•10/22/23, 9:57 PM

the other settings are pretty minimal, although even with them all disabled, it still was an issue (minus spring of course)

amadeus•10/22/23, 9:58 PM

also gain map in case you want to see that

amadeus•10/22/23, 9:59 PM

here's another example to show that clear change in resistance towards the edge

walmis•10/23/23, 4:48 AM

Hmm, it could be this is because of PSU power limiting - try increasing PSU current limit or reducing max motor current to 25A and see if this goes away

Wwalmis Hmm, it could be this is because of PSU power limiting - try increasing PSU curr...

amadeus•10/23/23, 6:17 AM

increasing PSU current to 14 does seem to fix it, although i don't know if that is safe?

amadeus•10/23/23, 6:18 AM

(or at least -- vastly reduces it, it might still be there a little bit

walmis•10/23/23, 6:18 AM

I recommend not exceeding max current of the PSU, otherwise PSU over current shutdowns are to be expected

amadeus•10/23/23, 6:19 AM

what's max current of the psu?

walmis•10/23/23, 6:19 AM

9.5A iirc

amadeus•10/23/23, 6:20 AM

what's strange is that it only happens in the X axis, not the Y axis :/

walmis•10/23/23, 6:20 AM

Or you can reduce max motor amps to 28.

amadeus•10/23/23, 6:21 AM

so what exactly is happening? out of curiosity?

walmis•10/23/23, 6:21 AM

saturation

amadeus•10/23/23, 6:22 AM

28 motor max and 9.5 psu current do definitely get rid of most of it for sure

hi,@walmis, to add to issue @virusam is reporting: - vpforce hw trim gets reset on P47 / Mossie when

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