but if you want to call `IMultiplicativeIdentity.MultiplicativeIdentity` then you cant without refle

but if you want to call

IMultiplicativeIdentity.MultiplicativeIdentity

IMultiplicativeIdentity.MultiplicativeIdentity

then you cant without reflection unless thats a required generic constraint

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:19 PM

INumber adds clamp, max, min, and comparison stuff over INumberBase

MMaxine no system.numerics uses SquareRoot. huh

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:19 PM

System.Numerics was done by a separate team in 2014 and was not following the general BCL design guidelines, and deviated in several places from normal expectations

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:20 PM

oh and INumber adds the

operator over INumberBase

Ttannergooding System.Numerics was done by a separate team in 2014 and was not following the ge...

Maxine•10/21/23, 9:20 PM

ah, noted

Kkhitiara but if you want to call `IMultiplicativeIdentity.MultiplicativeIdentity` then yo...

Kai•10/21/23, 9:21 PM

Hrm that's unfortunate

Maxine•10/21/23, 9:21 PM

yeah, c# limitation

Kai•10/21/23, 9:21 PM

Idk I'm just not a fan of loosing the well loved Vector3<DateTime>

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:22 PM

fun fact

Zero

Zero

and

One

One

are defined in INumberBase and the higher level interfaces use

AdditiveIdentity

AdditiveIdentity

and

MultiplicativeIdentity

MultiplicativeIdentity

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:22 PM

datetime doesnt implement any of these generic interfaces

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:22 PM

so you cant even get addition from it using this setup

Kai•10/21/23, 9:22 PM

I know, but I should be allowed to declare that :/

Kai•10/21/23, 9:22 PM

Also they do have comparable

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:23 PM

INumber extends IComparable

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:23 PM

as does DateTime when

KKai Where a/b are VectorN<i8> and the output is f8

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:23 PM

I’d strongly recommend against this. The design guidelines are T in, T out for a reason

Ttannergooding I’d strongly recommend against this. The design guidelines are T in, T out for a...

Kai•10/21/23, 9:24 PM

Can you explain what that reason is? Pretty common in Ai stuffs iirc

Ttannergooding I’d strongly recommend against this. The design guidelines are T in, T out for a...

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:24 PM

rn our only solid option for Length is to either allow specifying an intermediate root-supporting type or have it as an extension that also requires root support on T and the former is in the current working proposal

MMaxine what's teh diff between INumber and INumberBase again

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:25 PM

INumber is comparable, so real numbers
INumberBase is not, and so includes Complex numbers

Maxine•10/21/23, 9:25 PM

i see

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:25 PM

yup

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:26 PM

well-ordering is the difference, to pull out my abstract math side lmao

KKai Can you explain what that reason is? Pretty common in Ai stuffs iirc

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:26 PM

Because it leads to bugs. Conversions need to be explicit so you’re aware of the domain change and semantics that entails

Ttannergooding Because it leads to bugs. Conversions need to be explicit so you’re aware of the...

Kai•10/21/23, 9:27 PM

Is specifying a generic argument not specfic enough?

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:28 PM

No, because that doesn’t tell the user how the data is being used and hurts its ability to be composed, especially across other generics

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:28 PM

also why do we want comparability on the core VectorN types? comparing vectors isnt a very well defined operation generally speaking

Ttannergooding Because it leads to bugs. Conversions need to be explicit so you’re aware of the...

Aqua•10/21/23, 9:29 PM

yeah. this is why in my generic math library, functions that have a floating point output also must have an input type of float too. integer vectors lose the majority of functions. it just removes the potential for bugs and issues. having float output on an integer vector made me feel a bit uncomfortable when i thought about it, which is why i chose to do things the way i did

Aqua•10/21/23, 9:30 PM

if you need to perform floating point operations on an integer vector, you must explicitly cast to a floating point vector

Aqua•10/21/23, 9:30 PM

gives the user a much better idea of what's going on as well

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:31 PM

likewise, something like

Vector3<DateTime>

Vector3<DateTime>

doesn't make sense
nor does

Vector3<T>

Vector3<T>

implementing

INumber<T>

INumber<T>

, vectors aren't numbers

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:31 PM

vectors are, at best, a set of numbers

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:32 PM

ok the abstract math nerd in me has questions about the statement "vectors arent numbers" for technical reasons involving the ambiguity of the word number but in context yeah youre right

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:32 PM

there's a big difference between a

Vector3<T>

Vector3<T>

and a

Tuple3<T>

Tuple3<T>

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:32 PM

just remember, Computer Math != Real Math

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:33 PM

yeah

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:33 PM

im still sad that i only found out that the one core tensor library had a sparse matrix/tensor datatype until after it was removed lmao

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:34 PM

it's a loose abstraction within the confines of a bounded and finite system
and thus needs to redefine many basic rules, invariants, etc
needs to account for new concepts like wrapping, rounding, or per operation error
etc

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:34 PM

you can't even rely on

x + 1 > x

x + 1 > x

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:35 PM

but yeah id restrict T : INumberBase, have Vector3<T> implement the IXXXOperators and IXXXIdentity operations and have anything requiring more be extensions tbh

Maxine•10/21/23, 9:35 PM

yeah i agree, i'm tearing it all down

Kai•10/21/23, 9:36 PM

I think that's pretty fair. Thinking about it a bit I can get behind LengthSquared<T, TResult> being ambiguous.
I want to say it's for perf and users can just expect it's the same as

((VectorN<TResult>)vec). LengthSquared

((VectorN<TResult>)vec). LengthSquared

but then the perf win is small and that's a lot of mental overhead

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:36 PM

Personally, I'd define

public readonly struct Vector3<T> : IEuclideanVector<Vector3<T>, T>

public readonly struct Vector3<T> : IEuclideanVector<Vector3<T>, T>

and

where T : IFloatingPointIeee754<T>

where T : IFloatingPointIeee754<T>

then separately define a

public readonly struct Point3<T>

public readonly struct Point3<T>

and

where T : INumberBase<T>

where T : INumberBase<T>

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:37 PM

keep what works and is well definable for actual vectors as vectors, which requires floating-point like support
and separately define the concepts that work well for any number types, including integers

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:37 PM

having a unified type between ints and floats and complex etc as elements might as well be a design requirement at this point sadly

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:37 PM

because of how graphics programmers think

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:38 PM

you're ultimately just going to expose something that is harder to use
and more confusing than 2 types, IMO

this is really like

DateTime

DateTime

and

TimeSpan

TimeSpan

(and now

DateOnly

DateOnly

and

TimeOnly

TimeOnly

)

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:38 PM

you have 2 logically distinct, but similar, concepts

Kai•10/21/23, 9:39 PM

Hrm.
I really want the ability to do a Minecraft-esque thing where I do Vector3<ChunkDimension> and chunk position implements the relevant interfaces over some

int Chunk; float/Half Offset;

int Chunk; float/Half Offset;

tannergooding•10/21/23, 9:39 PM

you wouldn't want data like that though, that's really inefficient/bad

khitiaraOP•10/21/23, 9:40 PM

the thing is we often use int vectors in graphics programming to limit imprecision and then cast to floats later when needed for float-only ops, at least in my experience

Kai•10/21/23, 9:40 PM

It just makes so much sense for game dev and restricting to the full number + floating point is hard then

but if you want to call `IMultiplicativeIdentity.MultiplicativeIdentity` then you cant without refle

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