Curious, does Rhino make precision flying harder or easier? (Formation flying, AAR)

TTinman Curious, does Rhino make precision flying harder or easier? (Formation flying, A...

PiNKSH!T•11/20/23, 6:43 AM

I'd say it would help only in the sense that it is such a good stick, there is no sticktion, the dampening is smooth as butter the whole stick just feels premium, I went from a vkb gf3 base & when I originally upgraded to that from a x52 I thought it was the best stick base out there, but after upgrading again to the Rhino I found out just how good a stick can feel, plus you get the bonus of ffb effects, profile swapping etc. Also the Rhino has a huge length of throw like almost 44° total +/- in each axis so you have a huge range of motion to 'play with'. Hope this helps, as far as the Rhino goes it's easily the single best peripheral I have & I recommend anyone who enjoys flights simming enough to just go ahead & buy one, I seriously want two! After I do, rudders, yoke, collective I'd love to diy an even bigger motor kit! & if the winwing throttle coming out isn't really ffb & motor driven like the rhino I'll even consider doing a throttle, ffb is that good, not even so much the effects but just how good it feels, sry to rant lol, TLDR; Rhino so good, so smooth like butter, big range of motion, buy one!

amadeus•11/20/23, 8:43 AM

On thing I will add though — generally speaking the rhino doesn’t work with axis curves in game (at least in DCS this is a no go, IL2 might be ok with native support). So this can mean that certain aircraft like the spitfire will require an extension or some practice to not overdo the sensitivity part. That said, most planes are not really an issue because the stiffer feeling of the stick often helps counteract that extra sensitivity

VPforceBot•11/20/23, 9:55 AM

:package:

RHINO #0255 Has Shipped!

VPforceBot•11/20/23, 10:25 AM

:package:

RHINO #0258 Has Shipped!

VPforceBot•11/20/23, 12:36 PM

:package:

RHINO #0257 Has Shipped!

TinmanOP•11/20/23, 1:05 PM

Thanks for the replies guys, very informative.

AndyHill•11/20/23, 1:10 PM

Guys I think there might be something wrong with my MFG pedals. They are completely lifeless by themselves and if I step on them it feels like there's just a spring and a damper with even a little slop in it. No matter how much I try to slide the sliders in the Rhino software the pedals stay the same, I need to screw some screws or do stuff like that to make any changes. Also if I need to go into helicopter mode I have to crawl into my pit and pull off a spring, which is very annoying. This doesn't feel like how pedals are supposed to feel in 2023, pls hlp.

AAndyHill Guys I think there might be something wrong with my MFG pedals. They are complet...

RoyMi6•11/20/23, 7:05 PM

Sorry, new here… Apart from the troubles you’re having I’m interested in this. are you saying there’s a MFG Crosswind pedals mod to use motors and the rhino software to make them FFB/spring less? Got a link for this at all or all your own work?

amadeus•11/20/23, 7:10 PM

I believe he’s making a joke that he doesn’t have FFB pedals

amadeus•11/20/23, 7:10 PM

Walmis did tease us all recently with an MFG mod kit he’s working on

RoyMi6•11/20/23, 7:10 PM

On re-read i see that now

damit, well, to the drawing board with my own version then!

amadeus•11/20/23, 7:11 PM

So there should be a light at the end of this tunnel soon for people with MFG pedals

RoyMi6•11/20/23, 7:11 PM

Oh nice! Mfg pedals are stupid easy to add bits to so seems like low hanging fruit to me

amadeus•11/20/23, 7:12 PM

📃general

RoyMi6•11/20/23, 7:12 PM

I take it people playing with the idea of FFB rudders aren’t expecting “actual” FFB as most games won’t implement that - we just thinking of adding some nice features to the telemetry software?

amadeus•11/20/23, 7:13 PM

It’s artificial through telemffb I believe, yeah

amadeus•11/20/23, 7:13 PM

At the very least, you could toggle modes to the pedals to have a spring, or not, or have much better damping than hardware solutions

Vakarian•11/20/23, 7:14 PM

On the fly switch between spring/springless is the key, along with the ability to fine tune them.

Anything else that can be achieved via TelemFFB, that's extra bonus

RoyMi6•11/20/23, 7:17 PM

Yeah 100%. I mean as someone that basically only flys the F18 I’m getting a Rhino to give me “an awesome stick with no dead zone or slop”

RoyMi6•11/20/23, 7:18 PM

So I’m all for just making something amazing and moving away from springs anywhere

RoyMi6•11/20/23, 7:18 PM

Next on the list is a VPforce conversion kit with my winwing throttle

Fierce_Fire•11/20/23, 7:21 PM

and a collective kit

Number481•11/20/23, 7:22 PM

Pedal behavior with TelemFFB will vary based on the sim in question. (none of them have any native pedal support). (in addition to all the haptic effects)

MSFS
- Auto switching between FBW (fixed spring), Dynamic spring force w/ dynamic slip based forces, and un-sprung for helicopters (configurable dampening)
- Rudder trim following
- Rudder autopilot following
- Nosewheel shimmy effect
DCS
- Auto switching between FBW (fixed spring), Dynamic spring force based on individual aircraft speed envelope, and un-sprung for helicopters (configurable dampening)
- Rudder trim following for fixed wing aircraft
IL2
- Nothing special added yet but should be able to implement at least dynamic spring forces.

RoyMi6•11/20/23, 7:32 PM

Nice couldn’t ask for more really given the lack of considering from any developer to it even being a thing!

Sorry @_gunzablazin are you a dev on this or just pulled that from the GitHub somewhere?

Jon (Bounty_V)•11/20/23, 7:36 PM

https://shop.brunner-simulation.ch/product/cls-e-mk-ii-rudder-pedals/ pedals with ffb (ok more specifically, brushless dc servos) do exist but support for them in games is very limited

Brunner Shop

CLS-E MK II Rudder Pedals | Brunner Shop

The BRUNNER CLS-E MK II Rudder Pedals will take you to the next level of flight simulation. Read more about the Force Feedback Rudder.

Jon (Bounty_V)•11/20/23, 7:36 PM

"Enabled by our CLS2Sim software-environment, the CLS-E MK II Rudder can easily communicate with commercially available simulation software such as X-Plane, Microsoft Flight Simulator and Prepar3D®. Furthermore, any third-party flight simulation solution can connect via a simple TCP/IP or UDP remote interface protocol. DirectX Force feedback enabled games are also fully supported. "

RRoyMi6 Nice couldn’t ask for more really given the lack of considering from any develop...

Number481•11/20/23, 7:51 PM

I'm just an owner who got a bug up my arse one day to start playing with the TelemFFB source code to see how it works and if I could add some effects to it... It kinda snowballed from there

(I wrote the support for all of what I mentioned in that list).

BTW, a lot of what TelemFFB can do is documented in the manual linked in #VPforce Rhino WIP Manual

but there is still a lot that is not documented (or has changed to some degree since it was initially documented)

RoyMi6•11/20/23, 8:15 PM

Nice. Software dev myself so I’ve got an aye on possibly contributing myself. Really interesting to see if I can pull something out of DCS to put judder in the rudder pedals if you oversteer the nose wheel of the F18 on “high”. You carry on going straight instead of turning if you’re going too fast so I’m thinking something like detecting the rotation angle of the pedals and if there’s any corresponding rotation of the aircraft itself. Maybe scale the “rumble” based on amplitude of your speed and difference between input vs rotational velocity.
Basically it’s something that I always get caught out for on the carrier and would like some feedback to know when it’s happening

RRoyMi6 Nice. Software dev myself so I’ve got an aye on possibly contributing myself. Re...

Number481•11/20/23, 9:11 PM

There is a surprising amount of data you can get out of DCS. Some effects even go so far as to interrogate the model draw arguments to generate the telemetry needed for an effect. The afterburner rumble is this way for example. That's also how the damage effect I wrote works. It pulls all of the damage related draw arguments for an aircraft (i.e., the visual bullet holes and texture/model changes that occur when you take damage). There is no other damage telemetry that I could figure out how to access.

RoyMi6•11/20/23, 9:16 PM

Ah yeah, I think I saw someone mention that AB effect in another chat somewhere. Oh well, good to know that we can essentially be as hacky as we want to get an effect

Ry-ballz•11/21/23, 2:31 AM

My number is getting close

for the gunfighter attachment is it for the Mk3 or Mk4?

Handy#8443•11/21/23, 2:50 AM

it appears that rhinos are being shipped at an average rate of 3 units per day.

Handy#8443•11/21/23, 2:55 AM

if that is so

Handy#8443•11/21/23, 2:56 AM

I am 561 units from getting mine.

Handy#8443•11/21/23, 2:56 AM

looking at a very long time to get my hands on mine.

HHandy#8443 looking at a very long time to get my hands on mine.

FlatSpin•11/21/23, 3:07 AM

582

VVakarian On the fly switch between spring/springless is the key, along with the ability t...

audax•11/21/23, 8:15 AM

Not having to climb out of the sim cockpit to attach or deattach the spring from the pedals would be a dream.

SSnooper https://github.com/bobhelander/EDForceFeedback

Dr. No•11/21/23, 8:38 AM

So im working on getting this EDForceFeedback to work from this elite dangerous FFB github you sent. I have a working version for sidewinder 2 FFB.

Now hooking up the rhino.
It needs product GUID . How do I find that. Does anyone know what this value is for the VPForce Rhino?
Update: EDForceFeedback works

, use below in your settings.json for VPForce Rhino to work.
Also use this release, the latest didn't work for me.
https://github.com/x360ce/x360ce/releases/tag/3.2.9.82
"ProductGuid": "2055ffff-0000-0000-0000-504944564944",
"ProductName": "VPforce Rhino FFB Joystick",

VPforceBot•11/21/23, 9:58 AM

:package:

RHINO #0256 Has Shipped!

DDr. No So im working on getting this EDForceFeedback to work from this elite dangerous...

Snooper•11/21/23, 10:41 AM

sorry I found that mod a while now but never put that to a test.

SSnooper sorry I found that mod a while now but never put that to a test.

Dr. No•11/21/23, 10:42 AM

Np man I'm just glad it works!

Snooper•11/21/23, 10:43 AM

thanks for the update

Dr. No•11/21/23, 11:29 AM

Wow I learned from that github there is this wonderful visual editor for forces .ffe files
It's from 2010 but so cool, you have to put the program in compatibility mode for Windows 98/Me
It's amazing though. I wonder how you guys create forces.

Dr. No•11/21/23, 11:29 AM

Promise it's not a virus or anything, they use these .ffe files with signals from Elite Dangerous to input forces via events.
Super simple to create and implement. Maybe i'll build more of this game out, there are very few effects he's setup thus far.
I got this file from the EDForceFeedback github

fedit.exe164.77KB

Dr. No•11/21/23, 11:31 AM

Dr. No•11/21/23, 11:37 AM

to think they had ALL these effects back in 2010 ... and all FFB was blocked by some IP ... what a waste ... Thanks so much for reviving this

Dr. No•11/21/23, 6:40 PM

Makes me wonder if its possible to add ffb to starwars squadrons...

Dr. No•11/21/23, 6:49 PM

Apparently I stumbled across this paid app.
https://www.simracingstudio.com/pc-games Its $20 a year subscription and it adds ffb to 120+ games. Just interesting. If I get it ill report back what the experience is.

Sim Racing Studio

PC GAMES | Sim Racing Studio

DDr. No to think they had ALL these effects back in 2010 ... and all FFB was blocked by ...

audax•11/21/23, 7:06 PM

Force Feedback never went away in the Simracing world. There just was not enough demand for Joysticks with ffb.

Dr. No•11/21/23, 7:08 PM

Ah that's right! I wonder checking other software like this we can back capture some of those games and maybe tweak it further with controller software as well to see all the FFB possibilities for this FFB stick base

Curious, does Rhino make precision flying harder or easier? (Formation flying, AAR)

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