Keep in mind that KV reads are $0.50/million [1] (and if you're doing a KV fetch on every request th

Keep in mind that KV reads are $0.50/million [1] (and if you're doing a KV fetch on every request that can get expensive fast). I'd recommend something like BetterKV [2] if you're doing a KV read on every request.

[1] https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/platform/pricing/#workers-kv
[2] https://flareutils.pages.dev/betterkv/

mr nooli•3/26/24, 2:28 PM

Question from a noob here, why would you use something like CF KV vs Upstash's Redis implementation? Cost wise alone (unless my maths isn't quite right) it's a hell of a lot cheaper going upstash?

Mmr nooli Question from a noob here, why would you use something like CF KV vs Upstash's R...

Chaika•3/26/24, 2:44 PM

Is it? I'm sure there are some advantages to other KV products, CF's KV is kind of narrow in scope, but it looks like Upstash Redis is $2 per million commands times the amount of replicas you have (KV is $0.50/mil), plus $0.03 per gb used of bandwidth (where CF is 0)

mr nooli•3/26/24, 2:44 PM

Okay! I massively misread that as 0.2 cents

sorry haha

Chaika•3/26/24, 2:45 PM

well it looks like upstash redis is 0.2 per 100k

mr nooli•3/26/24, 2:45 PM

What a weird way to say 20 cents

mr nooli•3/26/24, 2:45 PM

Trailing 0 is what got me

mr nooli•3/26/24, 2:46 PM

Your right. CF is cheaper! I’m a donut

Chaika•3/26/24, 2:46 PM

well it depends what you're doing too. Upstash redis is flat pricing for read/writes

Chaika•3/26/24, 2:46 PM

CF KV is $0.50 per million reads, $5 per mil writes

mr nooli•3/26/24, 2:46 PM

I wanted a faster way to validate tokens for a cms I’m building

mr nooli•3/26/24, 2:47 PM

Rn I think the database call is slowing down the operation by quite a bit

Chaika•3/26/24, 2:47 PM

hmm, to me session store/that kind of use case is more of a Durable Objects thing

Chaika•3/26/24, 2:47 PM

CF's KV weakness is eventual consistency and min 60s caching

Chaika•3/26/24, 2:48 PM

DOs are cheaper anyway unless you're going to be performing hundreds of reads a second on that key, in which case you'd kill/overload the Durable Object

mr nooli•3/26/24, 2:48 PM

Not necessarily sessions, but long standing tokens to hit the api with

mr nooli•3/26/24, 2:48 PM

Something like what unkey.dev does

IIsaac McFadyen Keep in mind that KV reads are $0.50/million [1] (and if you're doing a KV fetch...

x03•3/26/24, 2:51 PM

That's really unfortunate. I saw articles of people saying to "host your whole app only using cloudflare" and that just seems impossible since most crud apps with auth need to read from some sort of database / KV store to verify user authenticity on every request, racking up read costs.

I might just switch to using a VPS if a full cloudflare setup isnt practical

Mmr nooli Something like what unkey.dev does

Chaika•3/26/24, 2:52 PM

hmm, wouldn't be able to do rate limiting without DOs or something but API keys alone would be kvable/as long as you stay it may take up to x time to become active. DOs are interesting though because they're cheaper even including request pricing, depending on how much duration you need.

mr nooli•3/26/24, 2:59 PM

Cool I’ll take a look!

mr nooli•3/26/24, 2:59 PM

My issue with unkey is it gets very expensive for a lot of keys

Xx03 That's really unfortunate. I saw articles of people saying to "host your whole a...

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 3:10 PM

So kind of. You should investigate JWTs.

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 3:11 PM

TLDR: issue a JWT one time (DB lookup), then you can cryptographically validate the JWT (without a DB lookup) on every request which will tell you whether the user is who they say they are.

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 3:13 PM

The downside is that JWTs are more tricky to revoke, other than the standard "this is valid for 24 hours". If that's a concern you can always do a DB lookup on sensitive actions like password changes, while allowing regular JWT validation on standard actions.

IIsaac McFadyen So kind of. You should investigate JWTs.

Matt Silverlock•3/26/24, 3:33 PM

For others here: Cloudflare Access stores its JWTs in KV, at scale.

IIsaac McFadyen The downside is that JWTs are more tricky to revoke, other than the standard "th...

x03•3/26/24, 4:12 PM

I'd rather avoid JWT tokens for several security issues

x03•3/26/24, 4:12 PM

My app relies heavily on being secure and issues like cookie logging need to be avoided

x03•3/26/24, 4:12 PM

thus I choose to use sessions

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:12 PM

Not sure what you mean?

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:13 PM

JWTs can be sent in the Cookie header the same as sessions.

x03•3/26/24, 4:13 PM

I meant that if someone rats your pc and steals your cookie, I dont want them to be able to plug the JWT into my website to log into your account

Xx03 I meant that if someone rats your pc and steals your cookie, I dont want them to...

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:13 PM

They can do that with a session too...

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:13 PM

Unless I'm misunderstanding?

x03•3/26/24, 4:13 PM

the use of sessions lets me verify that the IP and user agent matches through the database

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:13 PM

Ah, I see.

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:14 PM

You can actually encode that in the JWT too.

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:14 PM

And then check the JWT, and if it's not the same then discard and return unauthorized.

Isaac McFadyenOP•3/26/24, 4:14 PM

We should probably move to #general-discussions to continue this discussion

x03•3/26/24, 4:15 PM

Alright ill talk to you there

MMatt Silverlock For others here: Cloudflare Access stores its JWTs in KV, at scale.

rob•3/28/24, 4:05 PM

anything similar like that for storing env keys secrets for external APIs on tbhe web ui that can be called by workers or funtions? or shouldwe just use kv