Started using the Rhino two days ago. I have had several instances of both motors suddenly going off

Started using the Rhino two days ago. I have had several instances of both motors suddenly going offline. Today I had pitch axis motor going offline during DCS dogfight. Configurator showed unstable condition on pitch axis motor. I'm guessing this is going to happen again. Any suggestions as to how to identify the problem?

SSudeebare Started using the Rhino two days ago. I have had several instances of both motor...

TheAmazinGreat•11/4/24, 10:46 PM

Post a screenshot of your configurator effects and settings tabs

SudeebareOP•11/4/24, 11:25 PM

SudeebareOP•11/4/24, 11:28 PM

f14billy•11/4/24, 11:40 PM

In the settings tab you also want to expand the setting on the right side like power settings filters etc before taking the screenshot

SudeebareOP•11/5/24, 12:10 AM

TTheAmazinGreat I did, but was able to tune it out with some changes to friction/inertia. I woul...

Varibraun•11/5/24, 1:41 AM

I am getting this resting oscillation/shaking also with the new firmware, mine seems related to friction.

SSudeebare Click to see attachment

TheAmazinGreat•11/5/24, 3:31 AM

Those look like the rhino defaults so it should be pretty stable. Do you have it plugged into a USB hub or directly to your PC?

VVaribraun I am getting this resting oscillation/shaking also with the new firmware, mine s...

TheAmazinGreat•11/5/24, 3:32 AM

I also played with the vel and acc estimator gains. Increasing them slowly helped further stabilize.

SSudeebare Click to see attachment

Hiob•11/5/24, 6:53 AM

Your spring gain is too high. You must make sure, that the maximum amps at max deflection stay below your limit. Otherwise you can easily overpower the motor and tilt it.

walmis•11/5/24, 8:34 AM

@Sudeebare One could lower the Damper force low pass filter, to 15-20Hz if instability develops.

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(41F) RAFAIR Dave H•11/5/24, 8:39 AM

Is the jst conector on the walmis board jst xh or jst ph

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(41F) RAFAIR Dave H•11/5/24, 8:40 AM

Oh and does anyone have a source for replacement warthog grip male din plug as I have managed to snap off one of the pins last night

((41F) RAFAIR Dave H Is the jst conector on the walmis board jst xh or jst ph

TheAmazinGreat•11/5/24, 11:46 AM

For the grip it is XH

TheAmazinGreat•11/5/24, 11:52 AM

Din plugs probably best source is gonna be something like digikey or aliexpress.

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(41F) RAFAIR Dave H•11/5/24, 11:54 AM

Thanks and yes finding the din plug id proving to be difficult I have a f18 grip I can use until I fix the warthog one, once I rewire the complete grip loom not splice as I have been trying to do as I didn’t have the correct jst crimp stuff

HHiob Your spring gain is too high. You must make sure, that the maximum amps at max d...

TheAmazinGreat•11/5/24, 1:18 PM

I’ve never used the 57 series, but the settings they have shown is the default Rhino profile and it is a production Rhino. I would think the default profile would be built so as not to over current the motors. The motor current limit is also set correctly for 30A max. Shouldn’t that limit it as needed by lowering output?

CaptainNel•11/5/24, 1:46 PM

Before I place my order, how many inputs does the VPForce shift register board have? I can count 32 but that’s assuming they’re all inputs and they share a common ground? And then is it’s 5 pins to the board and bobs your uncle?

CaptainNel•11/5/24, 1:49 PM

Also looking at the image it looks like hc165 shifts, so my own grip uses those, is there logic on the VPForce control board yo handle inputs from any hc165s? Or is the VPForce board proprietary in any way

TTheAmazinGreat I’ve never used the 57 series, but the settings they have shown is the default R...

Hiob•11/5/24, 2:04 PM

The powers involved are determined by various factors. First and foremost by the length of the lever (that you choose). A grown man will always be ultimatively stronger than the motors.

Hiob•11/5/24, 2:05 PM

That's why you need to adjust the settings properly.

CCaptainNel Also looking at the image it looks like hc165 shifts, so my own grip uses those,...

walmis•11/5/24, 2:05 PM

Yeah it's HC165s, it's compatible with TM, so has the inverter on the LATCH/CS signal, so it's active LOW

TTheAmazinGreat I’ve never used the 57 series, but the settings they have shown is the default R...

Hiob•11/5/24, 2:07 PM

It's even more important for the pedals, since legs are much stronger and have less fine control/feeling. When you kick/push/pull too fast, the overcurrent protection will disable the motor(s) entirely. When you pull slowly, you will just reach a plateau where the max force of the motor will stay constant, which feels strange.

CaptainNel•11/5/24, 2:07 PM

So could I build my own stick on my own hc165s and it would work?

CaptainNel•11/5/24, 2:08 PM

Or is the shift board doing some work before it gets to the controller

Hiob•11/5/24, 2:08 PM

It is best to have the max spring force set in a way, that it will just be reached at max deflection (keep in mind, that friction et al. will also eat some current)

HHiob It's even more important for the pedals, since legs are much stronger and have l...

walmis•11/5/24, 2:10 PM

It's not entirely true, while the current is limited, the STABILITY fault usually occurs due to instability in the damper control loop, due to self oscillation/resonances

Wwalmis It's not entirely true, while the current is limited, the STABILITY fault usuall...

Hiob•11/5/24, 2:11 PM

I think we are talking about two different problems/faults here.

Hiob•11/5/24, 2:11 PM

Sorry for the confusion.

Hiob•11/5/24, 2:12 PM

Perhaps it is best to settly one problem after another.....

Hiob•11/5/24, 2:15 PM

Regardless - I wouldn't recommend to bluntly put the spring gain to 100. Even if it doesn't tilt the motor, Reaching a force-plateau before the endstop just feels weird.

TTheAmazinGreat Those look like the rhino defaults so it should be pretty stable. Do you have it...

SudeebareOP•11/5/24, 3:20 PM

Plugged into MB through a USB isolator. Today so far I did a half hour DCS session of touch & goes in I-16 at Tonopah without incident. No dogfights

I will try the suggestions given above and report back. Thanks to all for the quick replies!

SSudeebare Plugged into MB through a USB isolator. Today so far I did a half hour DCS sessi...

TheAmazinGreat•11/5/24, 3:21 PM

9 times out of 10 seems like the issue is people using a USB hub, powered or not. Usually plugging directly to mobo solves issues with disconnects.

Wwalmis It's not entirely true, while the current is limited, the STABILITY fault usuall...

Reed•11/5/24, 4:17 PM

With the new update and the way you handling damper now, what are some good targets for those of us with really extensions who want to change the spring gain so it stronger in the middle? Keep the stick from oscillating I guess. Does changing the hz effect performance or is there is a risk vs benefits so to speak.

TTheAmazinGreat I also played with the vel and acc estimator gains. Increasing them slowly helpe...

Varibraun•11/5/24, 7:27 PM

If you have a chance, would you mind posting your current settings that solved it for you? I am relatively new to all of this and probably shouldn't have updated my firmware yet, so I panicked a bit when I had the oscillation and did a factor reset to start over, but gimped my settings as a result. Thank you!

VVaribraun If you have a chance, would you mind posting your current settings that solved i...

TheAmazinGreat•11/5/24, 8:17 PM

If you get in that situation in the future, you can import the default settings for the Rhino. There is a “default” profile when you click the import tab. If you accidentally saved over this, you can redownload the configurator.

For you I would suggest importing Rhino defaults, do your auto calibration and export as a new configuration (include calibration data with export). That will give you a good starting point to reset to in the future that has your calibration accurate for your device.

VVaribraun If you have a chance, would you mind posting your current settings that solved i...

TheAmazinGreat•11/5/24, 8:25 PM

I’m not exactly sure if my settings would work for you since we have different set ups, that’s why the advanced tuning settings exist. I see them also as “adjust at your own risk” so be careful. If you hover your mouse over the text box or the “i” symbol it should give you some tips, pay attention to these.

You could start with: 🧰support

What worked for me was to slowly increase the vel and acc estimator gains until the oscillation went away, I ended up at vel:80, acc:40.

TTheAmazinGreat I’m not exactly sure if my settings would work for you since we have different s...

Varibraun•11/5/24, 8:34 PM

Thank you - I will give this a "careful" go so that I don't have to disable friction in effects.

BOO•11/5/24, 8:46 PM

Ive seen a few comments about USB hubs and Rhino issues. Is this a general "dont use" rule? I was hoping to use a hub connected to the chair due to my situation (wont have a permanent pit). Itll be a bit of a bugger if I cant do this.

BBOO Ive seen a few comments about USB hubs and Rhino issues. Is this a general "dont...

tanr•11/5/24, 8:57 PM

Just my personal experience, but I was able to make the Rhino work on 3 different powered USB 3.0 hubs. HOWEVER, on 2 of the 3 hubs (including an "industrial" one) if I came close to maxing out the ports (even though I wasn't maxing out the available endpoints as far as I could tell with USB Device Tree Viewer) I would get disconnects from TelemFFB and the device would stop being seen as a game controller even though USB Device Tree Viewer still saw it.

tanr•11/5/24, 8:58 PM

I still have the Rhino on a powered hub (Startech Industrial 10 port USB 3.0 w/ 65 watt PS) but I am only using 8 of the 10 ports. Adding any additional device causes issues. Note that I've got a Stream Deck XL on that same hub and it's a resource hog, so could be part of the issue.

BOO•11/5/24, 8:59 PM

@tanr Thanks for the reply mate. Appreciate it

BBOO Ive seen a few comments about USB hubs and Rhino issues. Is this a general "dont...

Hiob•11/5/24, 9:00 PM

I‘m running both, Rhino Stick and „Rhino“ Pedals from a USB 3.0 hub (unpowered). So far no issues.

BOO•11/5/24, 9:01 PM

@Hiob Thank you Mate - what make/model?

Hiob•11/5/24, 9:09 PM

wait….

Hiob•11/5/24, 9:10 PM

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07KFG8PPR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

RSHTECH USB Hub Aktiv 3.0 mit Netzteil, Aluminium USB 3.0 Hub mit 7...

RSHTECH USB Hub Aktiv 3.0 mit Netzteil, Aluminium USB 3.0 Hub mit 7 USB 3.0 Ports, USB 3.0 Port Verteiler für Datenübertragung mit 10W (5V/2A) Netzteil, RSH-518-2

Hiob•11/5/24, 9:11 PM

I‘m using it without the power plug though

kaltokri•11/5/24, 9:13 PM

I use this one, but was not brave enough to connect my Rhino Joystick and the RhinoMFG to it

:
https://www.amazon.de/RSHTECH-Datenkabel-Daten%C3%BCbertragung-Professionelle-RSH-A13-5/dp/B0B8GN6XK8
But I will try it in the next days/weeks.

USB Hub mit Netzteil, RSHTECH Aluminium USB Hub Aktiv 3.0 mit Netzt...

USB Hub mit Netzteil, RSHTECH Aluminium USB Hub Aktiv 3.0 mit Netzteil 72W(12V/6A), 13-Port USB Hub Aktiv mit 100cm Datenkabel, zum Laden und Datenübertragung, Professionelle Business Grade, RSH-A13-5

Hiob•11/5/24, 9:14 PM

Seem to be the same apart from the port count

kaltokri•11/5/24, 9:18 PM

I had a rule of thumb since some years with DCS and USB hubs: "Connect everything that has an axis directly to the motherboard usb ports or a good pcie USB card." I had really strange behaviors by using some USB hubs. But I want to slim down my cable management. So I will try it again.

BOO•11/5/24, 9:23 PM

Ive used my Crosswinds, Warthog Throttle and Virpi Stick without any issues in DCS for many years using a powered 7 port TP-link hub. Worst I get on boot up is a funky stick but unplgging the usb sorts it instantly. Im hoping this continues with the Rhino though I will likely upgrade the hub (hence the asks) for those non VR moments when I have to drag out the TIR and headphones.

Started using the Rhino two days ago. I have had several instances of both motors suddenly going off

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