Cloudflare Developers•10mo ago

oh sorry i thought u were sharing an update on the laliga situation

azOP•3/16/25, 12:27 AM

im pretty sure most websites do have ech, all of mine do and theyre on the free plan

Aaz oh sorry i thought u were sharing an update on the laliga situation

D5•3/16/25, 12:31 AM

No updates unfortunately. From what I understood, the latest thing used to block entire IPs was due to Cloudflare using ECH.
So looks like it doesn't make sense since it's not being used

DD5 No updates unfortunately. From what I understood, the latest thing used to block...

azOP•3/16/25, 12:32 AM

the site from your bio is using it

Aaz the site from your bio is using it

D5•3/16/25, 12:34 AM

Quic ≠ ECH

azOP•3/16/25, 12:34 AM

the last column is the SNI

D5•3/16/25, 12:34 AM

Oh, I see, it's the second IP address

D5•3/16/25, 12:34 AM

Interesting

Aaz the site from your bio is using it

D5•3/16/25, 12:35 AM

How did you get that?

DD5 How did you get that?

azOP•3/16/25, 12:35 AM

wireshark

azOP•3/16/25, 12:36 AM

added the SNI from the outer client hello as a column in wireshark

D5•3/16/25, 12:36 AM

Okay, interesting

D5•3/16/25, 12:37 AM

Looks like
https://dh-sw.net is actually using it.
My subdomains like
https://inicio.dh-sw.net (redirect from main domain)
https://service.dh-sw.net/v1

And others are not using it

DD5 Looks like https://dh-sw.net is actually using it. My subdomains like https://...

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:38 AM

eh I think the https lookup is just lazy

D5•3/16/25, 12:38 AM

But they're affected anyways

DD5 Looks like https://dh-sw.net is actually using it. My subdomains like https://...

azOP•3/16/25, 12:38 AM

ignore nvidia in the middle but both of the subdomains have it enabled for me too

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:38 AM

I don't think the browser blocks for the https record lookup (and its reset if you hard refresh), or something along those lines, it's def supported on the subdomains

CChaika eh I think the https lookup is just lazy

D5•3/16/25, 12:38 AM

wdym?

DD5 wdym?

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:39 AM

it has to lookup the https record to see ech support/etc

Aaz ignore nvidia in the middle but both of the subdomains have it enabled for me to...

D5•3/16/25, 12:39 AM

Weird. No idea why in some cases it's enabled and others not

CChaika it has to lookup the https record to see ech support/etc

D5•3/16/25, 12:40 AM

I did. Still showing without ECH

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:40 AM

chaik@ash:~$ dig inicio.dh-sw.net https +short
1 . alpn="h3,h2" ipv4hint=104.21.16.1,104.21.32.1,104.21.48.1,104.21.64.1,104.21.80.1,104.21.96.1,104.21.112.1 ech=AEX+DQBBOwAgACBbqnLeAhRhhU0+EDxnIOla6O7FndMj8smocxf663njTwAEAAEAAQASY2xvdWRmbGFyZS1lY2guY29tAAA= ipv6hint=2606:4700:3030::6815:1001,2606:4700:3030::6815:2001,2606:4700:3030::6815:3001,2606:4700:3030::6815:4001,2606:4700:3030::6815:5001,2606:4700:3030::6815:6001,2606:4700:3030::6815:7001

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:41 AM

I meant more in the implementation of Firefox though (or whatever browser you're using)

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:41 AM

sometimes I hard refresh/visit for the first time and it isn't ech until reload

Erisa•3/16/25, 12:41 AM

seems counter-intuitive to the purpose of ech lol

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:41 AM

FF docs say

Firefox retrieves this data simultaneously with performing a DNS lookup when connecting to a website, ensuring there's no extra delay during the connection.

wonder what happens if the https record lookup takes longer then the A/AAAA, if it just doesn't use it or something, they specifically say "no extra delay"

D5•3/16/25, 12:43 AM

Okay, then I don't understand why some ISPs are able to find what's the hostname or the website you're visiting and other not

azOP•3/16/25, 12:44 AM

tls 1.3 is a requirement of ech right?

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:44 AM

looks like there's a firefox config setting to make it wait for the https record lookup

network.dns.force_waiting_https_rr Whether to wait for the HTTPS RR lookup to complete before starting a connection. Boolean True True

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Encrypted_Client_Hello
It kinda looks like it's on by default though, so maybe my theory is wrong, will try forcing it...

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:50 AM

ech's always been a little weird. Used to need DoH for a while, only later was relaxed

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:50 AM

looks like for me turning on DoH made it much more consistent, still seems to revert on hard refresh weirdly but meh

Original message was deleted

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:52 AM

part of the reason why DoH is pushed with it

Original message was deleted

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:52 AM

I believe a bunch of CDNs stop that now, I forget if CF does

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:57 AM

Azure's Front door adverts not supporting "Domain Fronting" like it's a feature lol

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:57 AM

doesn't really work for security either of course

Original message was deleted

azOP•3/16/25, 12:57 AM

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:58 AM

one of a few Microsoft Cdn options lol

azOP•3/16/25, 12:59 AM

azure is crazy expensive

azOP•3/16/25, 12:59 AM

my work computer is an azure vm

Original message was deleted

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:59 AM

you're forgetting you pay monthly a base fee for the privilege to use it

Chaika•3/16/25, 12:59 AM

$35 for standard, $330 for premium

Chaika•3/16/25, 1:00 AM

I use it at the place I work, it's super slow to update but has mostly been fine, needed something within Azure to do lb

Chaika•3/16/25, 1:01 AM

I love the random errors you get while navigating it lol

Chaika•3/16/25, 1:01 AM

it's stupidly spotty and errory

Chaika•3/16/25, 1:01 AM

and at times super slow

Chaika•3/16/25, 1:02 AM

some new stuff doesn't work in Firefox like all the new billing views

Chaika•3/16/25, 1:02 AM

only displays in Chrome

Chaika•3/16/25, 1:04 AM

ehh, I think the aws panel can still be pretty bad

Chaika•3/16/25, 1:05 AM

quicker and less errory from my limited experience, but pretty convoluted

CChaika looks like there's a firefox config setting to make it wait for the https record...

azOP•3/16/25, 1:21 AM

from my testing firefox sends atleast 3 querys of type 28, 65, 1 seemingly in any order

Aaz azure is crazy expensive

D5•3/16/25, 1:22 AM

Like AWS. The only cloud service with a reasonable price I've found is Cloudflare

oh sorry i thought u were sharing an update on the laliga situation

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