Hi, probably a noob question, but I'm connecting to a distant Neon db, and the latencies I'm seeing

Ssplon Hi, probably a noob question, but I'm connecting to a distant Neon db, and the l...

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AJR•5/28/25, 11:06 PM

postgres.js will often take multiple round trips for a query. For your use case I'd try switching to node-postgres, it should do each of your queries in a single round trip.

AAJR postgres.js will often take multiple round trips for a query. For your use case...

I

Isaac McFadyen•5/29/25, 4:35 AM

that's kinda interesting, any idea why postgres.js does and node-postgres doesn't? I feel like I've seen it mentioned before but don't remember what the reason given was

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AJR•5/29/25, 1:34 PM

Sure, I can talk through that. It's very "in the weeds" and is definitely the sort of thing we prefer to avoid making our users have to deal with, but I find it interesting.

So all of this has to do with Bind messages (https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/protocol-message-formats.html) and how you handle the parameter values for each bound parameter. There are two formats available,

binary

binary

binary

binary and

text

text

text

text. Postgres.js uses the binary format, while node-postgres uses the text format.

Binary format avoids needing text parsing, is smaller on the wire, and can in some scenarios be more precise. However, you generally need to get the actual format codes for each type from the server. To do this, postgres.js structures all new prepared statements (and therefore most new queries), as a Parse-Describe-Flush sequence, which will get back the ParameterDescription containing the binary format codes for each parameter. It then uses that information to construct the Bind message, and sends a followup Bind-Execute-Sync sequence, to get the actual results.

Node-postgres just builds the whole thing in one shot, as a Parse-Bind-Execute-Sync sequence. This pulls back the results in a single round-trip, at the cost of making the origin DB do some extra work handling the Bind message, and with the risk of some loss of precision in types like

float

float

float

float or

timestamp

timestamp

timestamp

timestamp.

Which is most appropriate, as always, depends

PostgreSQL Documentation

53.7. Message Formats

53.7. Message Formats # This section describes the detailed format of each message. Each is marked to indicate that it can …

AAJR Sure, I can talk through that. It's very "in the weeds" and is definitely the so...

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Isaac McFadyen•5/30/25, 4:44 AM

That's kinda interesting. I assume the overhead is minimal for serverful applications that run all the time but is worse for Hyperdrive? Is that message needed only at driver connection time or for all queries?

TTyveris With Aurora DSQL now generally available, any chance we will get improved Hyperd...

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AJR•5/30/25, 1:18 PM

That's not currently on our roadmap, but it's something we've kicked around internally a bit.

Ultimately we don't get a lot of requests for it relative to observability/stability/other features, so it's unlikely to happen very soon unless we hear a bunch of people wanting it.

CC @thomasgauvin , in case he has more/different thoughts to share here.

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AJR•5/30/25, 1:19 PM

That does raise a good question, though.

How many folks around here are using DSQL in anger? How's your experience been, and is it something you'd be particularly interested in having more robust Hyperdrive support for? I haven't heard a ton about it after the initial launch, aside from the official AWS blog posts, and I'd be very curious to know what everyone is seeing about it.

IIsaac McFadyen That's kinda interesting. I assume the overhead is minimal for serverful applica...

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AJR•5/30/25, 3:04 PM

I think that's more or less correct, the round trips are most punishing for short-lived connections that don't re-use the prepared statement much.

That attribute fetch is needed for each new prepared statement, so if you re-run the same query with different params multiple times you only pay the overhead once. If you run N different extended-protocol queries you'll pay the overhead on each one.

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dave•5/30/25, 4:06 PM

Still no support for connecting to Hyperdrive from a non-Worker source, right?

Ddave Still no support for connecting to Hyperdrive from a non-Worker source, right?

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AJR•5/30/25, 4:07 PM

Correct. Though we're actively keeping an eye on cloudchamber and how we can best integrate with it once it's in a good spot to do so, if you count that.

AAJR That does raise a good question, though. How many folks around here are using...

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dave•5/30/25, 4:12 PM

I was interested in DSQL at first, but IMO sticking "regular" AWS RDS Aurora Serverless v2 is way easier. There's a bunch of extra PostgreSQL features that DSQL doesn't support.

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dave•5/30/25, 4:16 PM

DSQL also seems like 10x more expensive per query, and 3x more expensive on storage?

Ddave I was interested in DSQL at first, but IMO sticking "regular" AWS RDS Aurora Ser...

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dave•5/30/25, 4:17 PM

the lack of foreign keys is pretty terrible

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dave•5/30/25, 4:18 PM

imo the main benefit I see of DSQL over RDS Aurora Serverless v2 is support for public IPv6 lol

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AJR•5/30/25, 4:20 PM

That all makes sense, thank you!

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Muhajir•6/1/25, 2:18 AM

Hey folks, I just got this error today

Hyperdrive does not currently support MySQL multi-statement queries

Hyperdrive does not currently support MySQL multi-statement queries

Hyperdrive does not currently support MySQL multi-statement queries

Hyperdrive does not currently support MySQL multi-statement queries

 (log) 🔍 SQL Query: select `id`, `email`, `name`, `google_id` from `users` where `users`.`email` = ? limit ?
  (log) 📋 Parameters: [ 'muhajirframe@gmail.com', 1 ]
  (log) 🔍 SQL Query: insert into `sessions` (`id`, `user_id`, `expires_at`, `ip_address`, `user_agent`, `payload`, `last_activity`) values (?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?)
  (log) 📋 Parameters: [
  'd76a430d62722d6e0bced8540fea85dc1e8d1cfe1dcf2127c1b462bed5f5b070',
  6264,
  '2025-07-01 02:05:50.340',
  '2a09:bac5:3a11:18c8::278:7b',
  'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_15_7) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/136.0.0.0 Safari/537.36',
  '{"userId":6264}',
  1748743550
]
  (error) 02:05:50 ❌ ERROR Google OAuth error
       {
         "error": "Hyperdrive does not currently support MySQL multi-statement queries",
         "stack": "Error\n    at PromiseConnection.query (server.js:68443:26)\n    at MySql2PreparedQuery.execute (server.js:131993:32)\n    at QueryPromise.execute (server.js:131405:27)\n    at QueryPromise.then (server.js:126940:17)",

 (log) 🔍 SQL Query: select `id`, `email`, `name`, `google_id` from `users` where `users`.`email` = ? limit ?
  (log) 📋 Parameters: [ 'muhajirframe@gmail.com', 1 ]
  (log) 🔍 SQL Query: insert into `sessions` (`id`, `user_id`, `expires_at`, `ip_address`, `user_agent`, `payload`, `last_activity`) values (?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?)
  (log) 📋 Parameters: [
  'd76a430d62722d6e0bced8540fea85dc1e8d1cfe1dcf2127c1b462bed5f5b070',
  6264,
  '2025-07-01 02:05:50.340',
  '2a09:bac5:3a11:18c8::278:7b',
  'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_15_7) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/136.0.0.0 Safari/537.36',
  '{"userId":6264}',
  1748743550
]
  (error) 02:05:50 ❌ ERROR Google OAuth error
       {
         "error": "Hyperdrive does not currently support MySQL multi-statement queries",
         "stack": "Error\n    at PromiseConnection.query (server.js:68443:26)\n    at MySql2PreparedQuery.execute (server.js:131993:32)\n    at QueryPromise.execute (server.js:131405:27)\n    at QueryPromise.then (server.js:126940:17)",

 (log) 🔍 SQL Query: select `id`, `email`, `name`, `google_id` from `users` where `users`.`email` = ? limit ?
  (log) 📋 Parameters: [ 'muhajirframe@gmail.com', 1 ]
  (log) 🔍 SQL Query: insert into `sessions` (`id`, `user_id`, `expires_at`, `ip_address`, `user_agent`, `payload`, `last_activity`) values (?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?)
  (log) 📋 Parameters: [
  'd76a430d62722d6e0bced8540fea85dc1e8d1cfe1dcf2127c1b462bed5f5b070',
  6264,
  '2025-07-01 02:05:50.340',
  '2a09:bac5:3a11:18c8::278:7b',
  'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_15_7) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/136.0.0.0 Safari/537.36',
  '{"userId":6264}',
  1748743550
]
  (error) 02:05:50 ❌ ERROR Google OAuth error
       {
         "error": "Hyperdrive does not currently support MySQL multi-statement queries",
         "stack": "Error\n    at PromiseConnection.query (server.js:68443:26)\n    at MySql2PreparedQuery.execute (server.js:131993:32)\n    at QueryPromise.execute (server.js:131405:27)\n    at QueryPromise.then (server.js:126940:17)",

 (log) 🔍 SQL Query: select `id`, `email`, `name`, `google_id` from `users` where `users`.`email` = ? limit ?
  (log) 📋 Parameters: [ 'muhajirframe@gmail.com', 1 ]
  (log) 🔍 SQL Query: insert into `sessions` (`id`, `user_id`, `expires_at`, `ip_address`, `user_agent`, `payload`, `last_activity`) values (?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, ?)
  (log) 📋 Parameters: [
  'd76a430d62722d6e0bced8540fea85dc1e8d1cfe1dcf2127c1b462bed5f5b070',
  6264,
  '2025-07-01 02:05:50.340',
  '2a09:bac5:3a11:18c8::278:7b',
  'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_15_7) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/136.0.0.0 Safari/537.36',
  '{"userId":6264}',
  1748743550
]
  (error) 02:05:50 ❌ ERROR Google OAuth error
       {
         "error": "Hyperdrive does not currently support MySQL multi-statement queries",
         "stack": "Error\n    at PromiseConnection.query (server.js:68443:26)\n    at MySql2PreparedQuery.execute (server.js:131993:32)\n    at QueryPromise.execute (server.js:131405:27)\n    at QueryPromise.then (server.js:126940:17)",

A

ALECKS•6/4/25, 7:34 PM

Does the local wrangler version of hyperdrive behave the same as prod with regards to caching?

J

João Castro•6/10/25, 8:34 PM

We seem to be having problems with Hyperdrive during high traffic right now, the ID is b0a82a0544c94249a57d9a17611c9455

J

João Castro•6/10/25, 8:35 PM

Account ID 978f7d8fe0d7c314743586a46e505f14

J

João Castro•6/10/25, 8:35 PM

Apparently connections are timing out. Maybe we need to increase the max connections to our origin DB? Could someone help us with this?

A

AJR•6/10/25, 8:36 PM

Let me take a look

J

João Castro•6/10/25, 8:39 PM

The connection limit in our origin is around ~900

J

João Castro•6/10/25, 8:40 PM

So feel free to increase it if thats the problem

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AJR•6/10/25, 8:40 PM

Yep, that's going to be 99% of it, you're on the default 60 still

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AJR•6/10/25, 8:41 PM

Okay, we'll roll out an increase for you with the next release, put you up to 400. That'll give you about 6x the headroom you've had so far, while still keeping under that 900 if you wind up with two pools during high load

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AJR•6/10/25, 8:41 PM

That'll go out by end of next week

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AJR•6/10/25, 8:42 PM

Does that work for you?

J

João Castro•6/10/25, 8:42 PM

We kinda need this for right now, or website in currently down because of this

A

AJR•6/10/25, 8:42 PM

Ah. Okay, let me see what I can do here.

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AJR•6/10/25, 8:42 PM

Sec

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AJR•6/10/25, 8:44 PM

going to start cutting this change now. it's going to go out quick, but will take some time

A

AJR•6/10/25, 8:44 PM

I'll keep you posted via DM

J

João Castro•6/10/25, 8:44 PM

How much time do you think?

A

AJR•6/10/25, 8:45 PM

Can't really do this in <2 hours

J

João Castro•6/10/25, 8:46 PM

Ok, I'll try to create another binding and get connections from both of them instead of just one. Would this work or it limits the pool with the DB id or something like this?

A

AJR•6/10/25, 8:46 PM

Nope, that'll work for now.

J

João Castro•6/10/25, 8:46 PM

Nice, thanks

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AJR•6/10/25, 8:52 PM

As an aside, this is something we're going to be making self service very shortly. Apologies for this inconvenience

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Dan (Openside)•6/13/25, 2:51 AM

hello, wondering if hyperdrive supports dynamic databases. Use case is we create databases on the fly per customer in digitalocean. wondering if we can use the API to create the hyperdrive for each new database, then use them within cloudflare workers without binding them. Is that possible? Also, is the 25 limit per account able to be increased upon request? Is this use case supported for hyperdrive?

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AJR•6/13/25, 2:57 AM

That's not a use case we support very well today, but it's something we've been discussing a lot internally, actually. @thomasgauvin has been doing a lot of thinking in that direction and likely has better input on that topic than I do.

AAJR That's not a use case we support very well today, but it's something we've been ...

J

João Castro•6/13/25, 4:07 AM

This would probably be useful for a product I’m building as well btw

DDan (Openside)hello, wondering if hyperdrive supports dynamic databases. Use case is we create...

1

1984 Ford Laser•6/13/25, 10:09 AM

Durable Objects not suitable for this?

AAJR Okay, we'll roll out an increase for you with the next release, put you up to 40...

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dave•6/13/25, 12:10 PM

Can we see what our current connection count to Hyperdrive is?

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AJR•6/13/25, 12:45 PM

If we haven't done an override you're at 60 for paid and 20 for free. Each config gets its own allotment

Ddave Can we see what our current connection count to Hyperdrive is?

T

thomasgauvin•6/13/25, 2:43 PM

We're planning to work on exposing in the dashboard, along with configurability of connections that you allot to Hyperdrive over the summer

AAJR If we haven't done an override you're at 60 for paid and 20 for free. Each confi...

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dave•6/13/25, 2:45 PM

that basically ends up being 60 isolates globally right?

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dave•6/13/25, 2:46 PM

bit confused on why hyperdrive can't scale connections very well here; if I have 1,000 requests in an Worker all at once, Hyperdrive can't handle that?

Ddave that basically ends up being 60 isolates globally right?

T

thomasgauvin•6/13/25, 2:50 PM

Connections are returned to the pool while being unused, so there is definitely more than 60-100 isolates at a time, and this is why we recommend against wrapping everything in a transactions to avoid exhausting connections https://developers.cloudflare.com/hyperdrive/configuration/how-hyperdrive-works/#pooling-mode

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AJR•6/13/25, 2:55 PM

Part of the benefit of the split connection approach Hyperdrive uses. You can have a truly absurd number of isolates, the connections to origin are kept separately in their own pool and checked out for the minimum time needed to interact with the origin DB

Hi, probably a noob question, but I'm connecting to a distant Neon db, and the latencies I'm seeing

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