Cloudflare Developers•2mo ago

> I'm basically using all RPC calls I think I hear people say this and I always wonder how users ent

I'm basically using all RPC calls I think

I hear people say this and I always wonder how users enter the system? It's got to be HTTP or WebSockets, no?

Llambrospetrou Personally, I suggest against this for what's worth. Doing explicitly as it suit...

LarryOP•11/7/25, 8:24 PM

What exactly are you recommending against and why?

LLarry What exactly are you recommending against and why?

lambrospetrou•11/7/25, 8:26 PM

Doing a 2nd call to the DO all the time for every request to set the name identifier.

Llambrospetrou Doing a 2nd call to the DO all the time for every request to set the name identi...

jjjrmy•11/7/25, 8:46 PM

like I was thinking firstDO.withIdentifier('user:123').index()firstDO.withIdentifier('user:123').index()

LLarry > I'm basically using all RPC calls I think I hear people say this and I always ...

jjjrmy•11/7/25, 8:47 PM

so I use a normal Hono router on a worker for the routing.
I use the DO's

fetch()

fetch()

method for handling the websockets.

everything else is done through RPC

jjjrmy•11/7/25, 8:48 PM

app.get("/:id", HonoAuthMiddleware, BindDurableObjectMiddleware, async (c) => {
  const id = c.req.param("id");

  const notification = await c.var.notifications.get(id);

  if (!notification) return c.body(null, 204);

  return c.json(notification);
});

app.get("/:id", HonoAuthMiddleware, BindDurableObjectMiddleware, async (c) => {
  const id = c.req.param("id");

  const notification = await c.var.notifications.get(id);

  if (!notification) return c.body(null, 204);

  return c.json(notification);
});

jjjrmy•11/7/25, 8:49 PM

so really I use the durable object as a class with a store in it, kinda like you'd use something like Pinia for on the frontend.

jjjrmy•11/7/25, 8:50 PM

a store has it's state, actions, getters

jjjrmy•11/7/25, 8:51 PM

idk why I went with this instead of doing it all through fetch ()fetch () and routing it that way

jjjrmy•11/7/25, 9:01 PM

@Larry and the BindDurableObjectMiddlewareBindDurableObjectMiddleware is what sets the DO to c.var.notificationsc.var.notifications

NNeed_Not Trying to move a KV DO to SQLite and I know I'll have to delete it and create a ...

1984 Ford Laser•11/7/25, 9:38 PM

You can't turn an old KV namespace into an SQLite one

LLarry > I'm basically using all RPC calls I think I hear people say this and I always ...

cloudkite•11/7/25, 10:02 PM

Some DOs we use purely as a data store with some collocated code. so they are never accessed via http or websockets

cloudkite•11/7/25, 10:06 PM

Essentially d1 esk functionality but with benefit of collocated code and easier to have db per customer/user

Jjjjrmy ```ts app.get("/:id", HonoAuthMiddleware, BindDurableObjectMiddleware, async (c)...

LarryOP•11/7/25, 10:39 PM

I'm not a hono user, but if you set a header in one of your middleware's with the name, then in your fetch inside your DO you grab that header and store it, you are golden. It even works if you are doing a WebSocket upgrade request because that goes through the same fetch handler inside your DO. That's how I always do it for DOs that are only one hop away from the user. For deeper layers, I would have to resort to some of the things people are mentioning here, but I decided a while ago that I would just use the string form of the id instead of the name for those layers so I never need the name for them.

NNeed_Not Trying to move a KV DO to SQLite and I know I'll have to delete it and create a ...

LarryOP•11/7/25, 10:48 PM

Yeah, as @1984 Ford Laser said, there is no automatic way to do it. I did it lazily when I had to do it the first system I migrated but I never did it that way after that because I had a panic at one point that I had lost data due to a bug in my code. Down time and cold turkey cut over is probably best.

JJoão Castro Since it is never populated inside the DO (and I suppose this won't be fixed sho...

João Castro•11/8/25, 12:23 AM

A bit related to this: Types for RPC functions are incredibly fragile. With common things like branded types they just turn into ‘never’ and make you question your own sanity

11984 Ford Laser You can't turn an old KV namespace into an SQLite one

Need_Not•11/8/25, 2:34 AM

im aware but i figured i could just clear it and make a new one but nope! I had to delete it, remove the binding, deploy, then readd it.

LLarry Export ~~for backup~~ is a real hole in Cloudflare's offering at this time. I ke...

gruntlord6•11/9/25, 4:32 PM

My work around was to setup a container that my worker calls. The container reads all the data from the durable object into its own sqlite database and then saves that to R2

gruntlord6•11/9/25, 4:33 PM

It's less elegant then wrangler but it doesn't block operations so thats a plus, and its also a proper database file and not a .sql file so its a lot more compact and easy to work with

Llambrospetrou Exporting, backups, migration to some other database system, are all on the road...

plgingras88•11/9/25, 4:57 PM

Backups are not an option neither a feature. It is an integrity and security core aspect born with computers. Cloudflare is great but Jesus the mindset behind few thing really needs to be revisited. This is why I was happy that open source altertives like Rivet would come to shake these nonsenses that make such a great feature a no-go for many businesses and projects.

Pplgingras88 Backups are not an option neither a feature. It is an integrity and security cor...

João Castro•11/9/25, 6:56 PM

There are a couple of things that look like really weird decisions to me as well. The ones that cause me the most frustration are around creating too much "magic" like Smart Placement without the possibility of setting a hint, and Queues that don't let you set concurrency manually. If it "just worked" it would be incredible but it was not or still isn't the case for well over a year. Hyperdrive did make things better, though.

Lleemuljadi Can DO use webRTC transport apart from websocket?

LarryOP•11/9/25, 7:13 PM

I've never used it but have you looked at: https://developers.cloudflare.com/realtime/sfu/introduction/

Cloudflare Docs

Introduction

Cloudflare Realtime can be used to add realtime audio, video and data into your applications. Cloudflare Realtime uses WebRTC, which is the lowest latency way to communicate across a broad range of platforms like browsers, mobile, and native apps.

JJoão Castro A bit related to this: Types for RPC functions are incredibly fragile. With comm...

cloudkite•11/9/25, 8:02 PM

Unfortunately it’s kinda a typescript shortcoming, in the cloudflare type definitions RPC maps all functions of an object to make them async. Typescript doesn’t preserve generics when you do this, therefore you lose things like branded types.

cloudkite•11/9/25, 8:04 PM

Workaround we have used is to recast to correct type. Which if you have some kinda wrapper around your DOs is workable since you can isolate the hack to one place.

Marak•11/10/25, 3:30 AM

Does anyone know how to get approved for the Dynamic Worker Loader Beta? We could really use the invite actually. Thank you.

MMarak Does anyone know how to get approved for the Dynamic Worker Loader Beta? We coul...

1984 Ford Laser•11/10/25, 4:09 AM

Have you signed up? https://forms.gle/MoeDxE9wNiqdf8ri9

11984 Ford Laser Have you signed up? https://forms.gle/MoeDxE9wNiqdf8ri9

Marak•11/10/25, 4:49 AM

Yes

matt•11/10/25, 5:24 AM

when using durable object

script_name

script_name

option for local dev, the generated binding lacks a type parameter, usually provided to the namespace generic, ie.

DOSTORE: DurableObjectNamespace /* DurableObjectStore from durables */;

DOSTORE: DurableObjectNamespace /* DurableObjectStore from durables */;

versus what you'd normally expect:

DOSTORE: DurableObjectNamespace<import("../.svelte-kit/cloudflare/_worker").DurableObjectStore>;

DOSTORE: DurableObjectNamespace<import("../.svelte-kit/cloudflare/_worker").DurableObjectStore>;

Joy014•11/10/25, 6:04 AM

I am using DO and CF Containers to execute on demand user scripts on our platform. Is there any way to get access to "Dynamic worker loader beta". Have filled the form on announcement date.

Pplgingras88 Backups are not an option neither a feature. It is an integrity and security cor...

lambrospetrou•11/10/25, 9:29 AM

Just to be clear. D1 and SQLite DOs support Point in Time recovery for any point in time up to 30 days in the past.

What I a mentioned above was for things like backups elsewhere, to different DBs, or offloading backups to another product like R2 or even different providers.

JJoão Castro There are a couple of things that look like really weird decisions to me as well...

lambrospetrou•11/10/25, 9:33 AM

As you will see over the next few weeks/months, a lot of these things will be improved. As a platform Cloudflare evolved a lot over the years, and yes, a lot of the mindset and priorities changed due to how customers are using the platform and how certain "magic" as you say didn't come to fruition. (Personal opinion, but I personally dislike anything "magic", if you could see it from my suggestions over the past year, so I am with you on that one

)

So, as I always say, giving constructive feedback in what you would like to see change, or even new things, and justifying with legit use-cases is the best way to steer the platform towards delivering those things.

LarryOP•11/10/25, 1:45 PM

These are my "rules" for working with DOs. I'm looking for feedback/pushback/thoughts. They were written for my AI Coding Agent but I believe they are good rules regardless.

Llambrospetrou Just to be clear. D1 and SQLite DOs support Point in Time recovery for any point...

plgingras88•11/10/25, 2:57 PM

Oh absolutely, PIT was already part of my answer, but thanks for clarifying! Still, PIT is only a first-level safety net and indeed doesn’t solve the real issue : offloaded backups that ensure data integrity and security and easy way to import/export. Without these "features", backups and recovery in case of emergency become far too uncertain, left entirely to the user’s discretion and prone to human error.

SQLite definitely makes things more portable than KV, though. I just hope dumping the SQL file somewhere won’t take months (or years!) to arrive.

João Castro•11/10/25, 6:55 PM

If I have a transaction going on with SQLite (Output gate closed) and inside the transaction I make a network request (fetch, Queues sendBatchsendBatch, etc), what should happen? Should it just deadlock/timeout?

JJoão Castro If I have a transaction going on with SQLite (Output gate closed) and inside the...

lambrospetrou•11/10/25, 7:37 PM

If I have a transaction going on with SQLite

What do you mean by this? How do you have it going? Is it an implicit transaction, or do you use the transaction()/transactionSync()transaction()/transactionSync() functions?

Llambrospetrou > If I have a transaction going on with SQLite What do you mean by this? How do ...

João Castro•11/10/25, 7:40 PM

That would be with transaction()/transactionSync()transaction()/transactionSync()

João Castro•11/10/25, 7:48 PM

For example we could have an outbox table:

Transaction starts;
Change/delete a row (Output Gate closed);
Send the message to an external system (Request blocked by the Output Gate. Deadlock?);
Receive a response;
Transaction commit/rollback depending on the response;

This should have at-least once delivery guarantee, so it would be ok to send the same message again in the case of failure to complete the transaction or SRS failing to make writes durable.

João Castro•11/10/25, 7:49 PM

Right now I think we would have to lease the message and send it outside of the transaction, and then the consumer would have to ackack it later.

JJoão Castro For example we could have an outbox table: - Transaction starts; - Change/delet...

lambrospetrou•11/10/25, 7:50 PM

TLDR: If the callback given to those functions throws, the transaction is rolled back. Anythinh done outside in external systems is up to you to stay consistent.

João Castro•11/10/25, 7:50 PM

So there is no way currently to make outgoing connections inside a transaction?

João Castro•11/10/25, 7:50 PM

With SQLite

JJoão Castro So there is no way currently to make outgoing connections inside a transaction?

João Castro•11/10/25, 7:55 PM

In most cases this would be a bad idea, but in the scenario I described above it should be reasonable and a simpler design

JJoão Castro That would be with `transaction()/transactionSync()`

LarryOP•11/11/25, 1:44 AM

I wrote this a few years back before

transactionSync()

transactionSync()

existed but this may help: https://medium.com/cloudflare-durable-objects-design-patterns/maintaining-consistent-state-56f5bb22dba9

Medium

Maintaining consistent state

Cloudflare durable objects maintain consistency in light of storage write failure, but not when your code throws an unexpected error.

vcc•11/11/25, 1:50 AM

Can a bidirectional channel service built on the QUIC protocol ( like WebTransport) be used in durable objects?

matt•11/11/25, 2:41 AM

hey all, quick docs question

im using the cloudflare adapter with sveltekit (which works via

getPlatformProxy

getPlatformProxy

)

and this section provides instruction on using

script_name

script_name

in the binding to support local dev:

https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/wrangler/api/#supported-bindings

however after setting up this way i'm seeing this error trying to call RPC methods on the stub:

Error: Cannot access "DurableObjectStore#initialize" as Durable Object RPC is not yet supported between multiple dev sessions.

Error: Cannot access "DurableObjectStore#initialize" as Durable Object RPC is not yet supported between multiple dev sessions.

the docs from the link above say this, but I'm wondering if that "not" (fourth word along) should not be there? and instead should it read "If you ARE using..."

If you are not using RPC with your Durable Object, you can run a separate Wrangler dev session alongside your framework development server.

Otherwise, you can build your application and run both Workers in the same Wrangler dev session.

Vvcc Can a bidirectional channel service built on the QUIC protocol ( like WebTranspo...

Hello, I’m Allie!•11/11/25, 3:32 AM

No, not at this tim

1984 Ford Laser•11/11/25, 4:31 AM

Are there any plans to add the

agent

agent

s Schedule API to DOs? It's one of the more useful parts of agents that I'd love to have as part of the default implementation (or if lambro or Larry wanna add it into their DO packages

)

HHello, I’m Allie!No, not at this tim

vcc•11/11/25, 5:17 AM

Does this mean that it will be integrated into this protocol in future plans ? Or can only be built using WebSocket ？

Vvcc Does this mean that it will be integrated into this protocol in future plans ? ...

Hello, I’m Allie!•11/11/25, 5:26 AM

I’m not sure. I’m not on the Durable Objects team. I only say Not at this time because I can’t guarantee that the team isn’t planning to implement it at some point

HHello, I’m Allie!I’m not sure. I’m not on the Durable Objects team. I only say Not at this time b...

vcc•11/11/25, 5:45 AM

got it , thank u !