Are you aware if anyone has tested the motor kit with Prosim? controls communicate with Prosim and n

Are you aware if anyone has tested the motor kit with Prosim? controls communicate with Prosim and not directly with the sim, an interface may be needed to drive the motor kit. I assume that the software is for configuration only and doesn't need to be running?

AndyHill•5/25/22, 5:31 PM

I might want to pick your brains at some point to make sure I get my facts straight

AAndyHill I might want to pick your brains at some point to make sure I get my facts strai...

walmis•5/25/22, 5:31 PM

Sure thing

Ppaulnd Are you aware if anyone has tested the motor kit with Prosim? controls communica...

walmis•5/25/22, 5:35 PM

Not yet, this endeavor is in quite an early stage. I'm planning to implement an API to directly send requested torques to the device. That will open up many capabilities to interface external software with the device.
Yeah, the GUI software is a configuration front end, all the processing is done in device firmware.

Havebug•5/28/22, 8:34 AM

Hi @walmis , first of all great job! Flight simmers community really needed a FFB device! Since I'm quite proficient in mechanics and electronic stuff, I'm very interested in buying the Kit. Can you please recap of what is included in the kit and how I can buy it?

Flashgod_VR•5/28/22, 8:37 AM

i think those photos in the showcase tab show it all (scroll up). you'll get 2x modified motors (with implemented sensors) and the main controller

Havebug•5/28/22, 8:39 AM

yes, I noticed there are two motors and a controller, but in another picture I see a different motor size... So was wondering if is there an option to order different types of motors...

walmis•5/28/22, 8:39 AM

Hi @eaf51_havebug ! Yes the motor pictures are featured in the showcase. The whole thing is plug and play, you only need to attach motors to your mechanics and calibrate axis range.

walmis•5/28/22, 8:39 AM

walmis•5/28/22, 8:40 AM

Here are different specs for the motors according to manufacturer.

walmis•5/28/22, 8:41 AM

and the prices:
57BLF kit: 299€
86BLF03 kit: 399€
86BLF04 kit: 439€

walmis•5/28/22, 8:45 AM

The kit includes: 2 motors, USB FFB controller, hook-up wires for quick start (you may need to lengthen them, etc to accommodate your design)

Havebug•5/28/22, 8:46 AM

and i gues on the controller theres a connector for the Virpil Grip? (removed from the original base?)

walmis•5/28/22, 8:48 AM

There's a 5 pin JST XH connector on the board for TM, Virpil, WinWing grips

Havebug•5/28/22, 8:51 AM

Perfect, thank you. One more question: Are the axis sensors on motors contactless ? (no potentiometer?)

walmis•5/28/22, 8:52 AM

Definitely :)

Havebug•5/28/22, 8:54 AM

sent you a PM

I-WVoss•5/28/22, 12:16 PM

@walmis hello!! Sent you a PM

walmis•5/28/22, 12:17 PM

Hey! One sec

Wwalmis Hi @eaf51_havebug ! Yes the motor pictures are featured in the showcase. The who...

原

原子力Hoshino•5/28/22, 8:30 PM

What are the motors used in the Rhino Base? or all these options are available as an option as well?

walmis•5/28/22, 8:58 PM

@7hoshino The Rhino uses the 57 type motors. A base with the larger motors is on my roadmap, but meanwhile the larger ones are available as a kit to anyone willing to build mechanics of their own.

Wwalmis @7hoshino The Rhino uses the 57 type motors. A base with the larger motors is on...

原

原子力Hoshino•5/28/22, 9:10 PM

Roger. thx. looking forward to the bigger one

Flashgod_VR•5/29/22, 6:14 AM

@7hoshino don't underestimate the power of the 57ers

AndyHill•5/29/22, 10:49 AM

what limits the torque so that continuous is 0.6 whereas peak is 1.6? Components overheating?

walmis•5/29/22, 10:53 AM

Motor windings most likely - this parameter is from motor manufacturer. This is probably without any active cooling.

AndyHill•5/29/22, 10:54 AM

what are the main wear and tear problems for ffb in general? For normal sticks I'm guessing springs and cam bearings and stuff like that, but what's the main worry for ffb?

AndyHill•5/29/22, 10:55 AM

Also if you want a lot of strength out of an FFB system, how much can reduction gearing help?

walmis•5/29/22, 10:59 AM

I can't think of any actually, there are no wearing parts (Apart for the leather boot on the Rhino LOL). Bearings and motors should last a lifetime if driven within specs. A blown MOSFET could be one failure point, but that should not happen normally.

Gearing helps a lot, since it multiplies the torque directly - for example 5:1 gearing will generate 5Nm with 1Nm motor.

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:02 AM

Gearing of course lowers the speed the stick can move itself, but does that have a meaningful effect when you're just trying to generate force right then and there?

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:03 AM

as I mentioned I'm working on a review thing for ~600€ sticks and I have the vkb and winwing here with the virpil arriving next week

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:03 AM

it's kind of scary looking at how small the cam plates and other parts are

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:04 AM

I know enough physics to get a bit sweaty when I look at a ~30cm lever pumping force into parts that are a few cm at best

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:06 AM

Also are those motors brushless? My experience with brushless motors is from model planes and at least the early ones occasionally had problems with phasing if you so much as looked at them the wrong way, I suppose these ones are designed to take the rough handling

Mike (Mugs)•5/29/22, 11:10 AM

I have had them all, and in the end i want friction force and damping to replicate control feel from real airframes, from low stick forces like the yak to hydraulic and up to eddy dampers used for qfeel in f18 etc, ony the tech in devices i the brunner or rhino can currently do this, and the brunner cant sustain peak force like the rhino

walmis•5/29/22, 11:10 AM

The stick movement speed is not an issue - since we are talking about 0.5-2 motor revolutions per stick range. Yeah motors are brushless, controlled by Field Oriented Control (FOC) with absolute position feedback (non-contact), so that is completely different drive strategy than RC stuff

It provides smooth torque in any rotational position. Also I have implemented a magnetic cogging elimination algorithm, so it makes the motors response very smooth, without the magnetic "bumps" you can feel when turning an unpowered motor.

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:11 AM

ok yeah that's interesting

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:11 AM

btw did I understand correctly that Brunner don't use gearing? If so, why do you think that is?

walmis•5/29/22, 11:12 AM

They do

walmis•5/29/22, 11:12 AM

I have a few pics

walmis•5/29/22, 11:13 AM

Mike (Mugs)•5/29/22, 11:13 AM

Oh and Their hi end cls-p which can do 50N-m is 10k

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:14 AM

I wouldn't even dare touch something like that

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:15 AM

But why are they direct drive, with my limited understanding that sounds like a strange tradeoff to make

walmis•5/29/22, 11:16 AM

They do have gearing, you can see a small pulley on the motor, and a larger gear in the pics above.

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:16 AM

yeah that's what it did look like to me, but I wasn't sure

walmis•5/29/22, 11:16 AM

hard to say the teeth ratio, but could be ~1:3

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:17 AM

what would you say software support for ffb is like at the moment?

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:18 AM

are there common interfaces with reasonable capability and do games provide good ffb stuffs commonly?

walmis•5/29/22, 11:21 AM

There is USB PID standard for FFB devices which DirectInput supports, so games have native FFB - such as DCS, IL2, etc. Sadly MSFS2020 doesn't have FFB, but could be added with XPForce plugin. FFB can also be implemented as a plugin/extension with telemetry from the sim.

AndyHill•5/29/22, 11:21 AM

wait msfs has no ffb?

walmis•5/29/22, 11:22 AM

Nah, they didn't add it, strange.

Are you aware if anyone has tested the motor kit with Prosim? controls communicate with Prosim and n

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