That said, for them this is also just inventarization for if they even want to expand to doing game

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:02 PM

not exactly saying that

JJolleyslam That said, for them this is also just inventarization for if they even want to e...

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:03 PM

that is just unrealistic, even if you were carmack himself

J

JolleyslamOP•10/29/22, 7:03 PM

Absolutely

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:06 PM

@techpizza what were you going to say?

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/29/22, 7:06 PM

bruh

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:07 PM

he was typing for a little bit, I kinda wanted to hear his opinion

J

JolleyslamOP•10/29/22, 7:08 PM

I'm just saying there's many ways that the usability of a "engine" I write might not matter at all, so it might be okay to take a bigger risk on it
This is of course something I will have to discuss with the company, it all boils down to what they want.

not sure this is exactly the best way of going about it. If it works and they can further actually use it, it is a powerful option

I agree, but I'm not sure what would be a better way, except having a team of experts that know what a game engine needs

T

TechPizza•10/29/22, 7:08 PM

i wanted to say that it would be a big undertaking to make a game engine, especially a mobile one

T

TechPizza•10/29/22, 7:09 PM

and not to shit on your abilities, but a junior would not have a fun time

J

JolleyslamOP•10/29/22, 7:09 PM

;D

JJolleyslam I'm just saying there's many ways that the usability of a "engine" I write might...

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:09 PM

Use an engine designed by a team of experts, who knows what a game engine needs and how to implement those systems efficiently

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:10 PM

If they are going to use your engine to make any other meaningful games

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:10 PM

it has to be usable by the way

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:11 PM

not to mention you need to document and explain everything, so that they can understand what is going on

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:14 PM

now, it is great for job security, if they feel forced to use it though

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:14 PM

they will have to keep you around to make their stuff work

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:14 PM

to fix this, implement that

T

TechPizza•10/29/22, 7:15 PM

don't forget about the seven eleven million bugs on mobile platforms when it comes to rendering

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/29/22, 7:15 PM

:^)

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:15 PM

ahh yep

TTechPizza don't forget about the seven eleven million bugs on mobile platforms when it com...

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:15 PM

or compute shaders gabe

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:16 PM

I hope I gave you PTSD

T

TechPizza•10/29/22, 7:16 PM

compute shaders are a joke on adreno gpus at least

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:16 PM

for loops intensifies

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:16 PM

GPU VIDEO MEMORY CORRUPTION GROWS

RRedhacker2 Use an engine designed by a team of experts, who knows what a game engine needs ...

J

JolleyslamOP•10/29/22, 7:17 PM

Yeah, that does make the most sense then, doesn't it?

I think using Silk for something like that would be fun, but maybe that should just be a hobbyist project. There's also definitely a "I don't know what I don't know" aspect here which is preventing me from really grasping the scope of such a project.
I'm not quite closing the book on Silk for this, maybe there's still some cool things to be done with it.

I saw your PM's and Stride3D looks really promising, I'll definitely be checking that out too

Thanks y'all for answering my questions and having the discussion, I really appreciate it

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/29/22, 7:17 PM

np

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/29/22, 7:17 PM

good luck on the project

JJolleyslam Yeah, that does make the most sense then, doesn't it? 😅 I think using Silk fo...

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:18 PM

welcome, but yeah I would suggest godot or stride. Silk is fine for hobbiests or if you are in a positition to build an engine, but most of the time sadly, especially with work people aren't. Its a large time-sink and costs quite a bit

JJolleyslam Yeah, that does make the most sense then, doesn't it? 😅 I think using Silk fo...

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:20 PM

I would not completely give up on silk, I would just have a backup plan laid elsewhere

R

Redhacker2•10/29/22, 7:20 PM

do silk as a secondary

J

JolleyslamOP•10/29/22, 7:21 PM

Sounds good!

F

frutiemax•10/30/22, 12:10 AM

I think that using Silk.Net you learn stuff that you wouldn't learn with an existing game engine

F

frutiemax•10/30/22, 12:11 AM

For my case I like learning the low-level bits of code and how to structure the engine from scratch... I don't have money goals though so this is working for me.

B

Bloppy•10/30/22, 2:43 AM

Hi, this is my first time in this community and I have a question.
I was following the tutorials by myself, and I just saw that the texture part requires imagesharp.
Now I am wondering if there is any alternatives for this part.

B

Bloppy•10/30/22, 2:44 AM

If you are asking for a reason, I would say I am more familiar with mit license than apache

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/30/22, 2:48 AM

you are allowed to use imagesharp freely under the conditions of

   - You are consuming the Work in for use in software licensed under an Open Source or Source Available license.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Transitive Package Dependency.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Direct Package Dependency in the capacity of a For-profit company/individual with
     less than 1M USD annual gross revenue.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Direct Package Dependency in the capacity of a Non-profit organization
     or Registered Charity.

   - You are consuming the Work in for use in software licensed under an Open Source or Source Available license.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Transitive Package Dependency.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Direct Package Dependency in the capacity of a For-profit company/individual with
     less than 1M USD annual gross revenue.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Direct Package Dependency in the capacity of a Non-profit organization
     or Registered Charity.

   - You are consuming the Work in for use in software licensed under an Open Source or Source Available license.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Transitive Package Dependency.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Direct Package Dependency in the capacity of a For-profit company/individual with
     less than 1M USD annual gross revenue.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Direct Package Dependency in the capacity of a Non-profit organization
     or Registered Charity.

   - You are consuming the Work in for use in software licensed under an Open Source or Source Available license.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Transitive Package Dependency.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Direct Package Dependency in the capacity of a For-profit company/individual with
     less than 1M USD annual gross revenue.
   - You are consuming the Work as a Direct Package Dependency in the capacity of a Non-profit organization
     or Registered Charity.

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/30/22, 2:48 AM

but yes, if you dont fall under any of those, then you can use any image decoding library

L

Lyris the Kitori•10/30/22, 2:49 AM

our examples use imagesharp because its the easiest to use and generally the standard for custom built engines in C#

I

Invar•10/30/22, 11:55 AM

Hey everyone new to openGL and silk. The examples have been a great help but I am hoping for a specific example in some form or another.

Passing a struct as an SSBO to a compute shader and retrieving the updated value.
A simple example that merely modifies two variables in the struct array would be helpful.

I have tried to follow the openGL tutorials but they are in C++ and I feel I am fighting multiple battles at a time since I am not familiar with it.

Thanks.

I

Invar•10/30/22, 3:17 PM

Here is my effort. Any help will be awesome!
The following task is to change 9000 values in an array from 8.0 to 25.0

shader.comp

#version 430 core

layout(std430, binding = 0) writeonly buffer SSBO {
    float data[];
};

layout(local_size_x = 128) in;

void main() {
    uint ident = gl_GlobalInvocationID.x;
    data[ident] = 25.0f;
}

#version 430 core

layout(std430, binding = 0) writeonly buffer SSBO {
    float data[];
};

layout(local_size_x = 128) in;

void main() {
    uint ident = gl_GlobalInvocationID.x;
    data[ident] = 25.0f;
}

#version 430 core

layout(std430, binding = 0) writeonly buffer SSBO {
    float data[];
};

layout(local_size_x = 128) in;

void main() {
    uint ident = gl_GlobalInvocationID.x;
    data[ident] = 25.0f;
}

#version 430 core

layout(std430, binding = 0) writeonly buffer SSBO {
    float data[];
};

layout(local_size_x = 128) in;

void main() {
    uint ident = gl_GlobalInvocationID.x;
    data[ident] = 25.0f;
}

Run Code Snippet

            int NUM_INVOCATIONS = 9000;
            int WORKGROUP_SIZE = 128;
            float[] vertices = new float[NUM_INVOCATIONS];
            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                vertices[i] = 8.0f;
            }

            uint ssboIndex = Gl.GenBuffer();
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.BufferData<float>(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, vertices, BufferUsageARB.DynamicDraw);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.DispatchCompute((uint)NUM_INVOCATIONS, 1, 1);
            Gl.MemoryBarrier(MemoryBarrierMask.ShaderStorageBarrierBit);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);

            float* returnValues = (float*)Gl.MapBuffer(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, BufferAccessARB.ReadOnly);

            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                 Console.WriteLine(returnValues[i]);
            }

            int NUM_INVOCATIONS = 9000;
            int WORKGROUP_SIZE = 128;
            float[] vertices = new float[NUM_INVOCATIONS];
            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                vertices[i] = 8.0f;
            }

            uint ssboIndex = Gl.GenBuffer();
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.BufferData<float>(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, vertices, BufferUsageARB.DynamicDraw);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.DispatchCompute((uint)NUM_INVOCATIONS, 1, 1);
            Gl.MemoryBarrier(MemoryBarrierMask.ShaderStorageBarrierBit);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);

            float* returnValues = (float*)Gl.MapBuffer(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, BufferAccessARB.ReadOnly);

            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                 Console.WriteLine(returnValues[i]);
            }

            int NUM_INVOCATIONS = 9000;
            int WORKGROUP_SIZE = 128;
            float[] vertices = new float[NUM_INVOCATIONS];
            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                vertices[i] = 8.0f;
            }

            uint ssboIndex = Gl.GenBuffer();
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.BufferData<float>(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, vertices, BufferUsageARB.DynamicDraw);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.DispatchCompute((uint)NUM_INVOCATIONS, 1, 1);
            Gl.MemoryBarrier(MemoryBarrierMask.ShaderStorageBarrierBit);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);

            float* returnValues = (float*)Gl.MapBuffer(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, BufferAccessARB.ReadOnly);

            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                 Console.WriteLine(returnValues[i]);
            }

            int NUM_INVOCATIONS = 9000;
            int WORKGROUP_SIZE = 128;
            float[] vertices = new float[NUM_INVOCATIONS];
            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                vertices[i] = 8.0f;
            }

            uint ssboIndex = Gl.GenBuffer();
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.BufferData<float>(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, vertices, BufferUsageARB.DynamicDraw);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.DispatchCompute((uint)NUM_INVOCATIONS, 1, 1);
            Gl.MemoryBarrier(MemoryBarrierMask.ShaderStorageBarrierBit);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);

            float* returnValues = (float*)Gl.MapBuffer(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, BufferAccessARB.ReadOnly);

            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                 Console.WriteLine(returnValues[i]);
            }

I

Invar•10/30/22, 3:25 PM

The Writeline returns 8.0.
This indicates to me that I am feeding the ssbo to the shader and retrieving it correctly but its not being operated on.
Am I correct in the assumption?

M

MrTwix•10/30/22, 3:37 PM

Hi, I'm new to Silk.NET and was wondering what the third parameters of the KeyDown action was. From what little I can find of it online its supposedly some id, but of what? It doesn't correspond to the enum key values. Is it the utf-16 id or something entirely different.

IInvar The Writeline returns 8.0. This indicates to me that I am feeding the ssbo to th...

T

TechPizza•10/30/22, 3:40 PM

you could try checking in renderdoc

T

TechPizza•10/30/22, 3:42 PM

i feel like you didn't setup the shader uniforms correctly

T

TechPizza•10/30/22, 3:42 PM

because you are creating the buffer in that snippet

I

Invar•10/30/22, 4:08 PM

Solved it.

I

Invar•10/30/22, 4:08 PM

I actually forgot to use the shader. lol
Some of the classes are from the abstractions example.
CShader is a conversion of the Shader abstraction from the opengl tutorial asbtractions example that allows to just pass one object buffer rather
than 2 (i.e. vertex and fragment for standard use vs. 1 for compute shader.

I have never tried render doc and atm I am content in my current workflow but will down the line.

            comnputeShaderTest = new CShader(Gl, "shader.comp");
            comnputeShaderTest.Use();
            uint ssboIndex = Gl.GenBuffer();
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.BufferData<float>(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, vertices, BufferUsageARB.DynamicDraw);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.DispatchCompute((uint)NUM_INVOCATIONS, 1, 1);
            Gl.MemoryBarrier(MemoryBarrierMask.ShaderStorageBarrierBit);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);

            float* returnValues = (float*)Gl.MapBuffer(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, BufferAccessARB.ReadOnly);

            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                 Console.WriteLine(returnValues[i]);
            }

            comnputeShaderTest = new CShader(Gl, "shader.comp");
            comnputeShaderTest.Use();
            uint ssboIndex = Gl.GenBuffer();
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.BufferData<float>(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, vertices, BufferUsageARB.DynamicDraw);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.DispatchCompute((uint)NUM_INVOCATIONS, 1, 1);
            Gl.MemoryBarrier(MemoryBarrierMask.ShaderStorageBarrierBit);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);

            float* returnValues = (float*)Gl.MapBuffer(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, BufferAccessARB.ReadOnly);

            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                 Console.WriteLine(returnValues[i]);
            }

            comnputeShaderTest = new CShader(Gl, "shader.comp");
            comnputeShaderTest.Use();
            uint ssboIndex = Gl.GenBuffer();
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.BufferData<float>(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, vertices, BufferUsageARB.DynamicDraw);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.DispatchCompute((uint)NUM_INVOCATIONS, 1, 1);
            Gl.MemoryBarrier(MemoryBarrierMask.ShaderStorageBarrierBit);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);

            float* returnValues = (float*)Gl.MapBuffer(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, BufferAccessARB.ReadOnly);

            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                 Console.WriteLine(returnValues[i]);
            }

            comnputeShaderTest = new CShader(Gl, "shader.comp");
            comnputeShaderTest.Use();
            uint ssboIndex = Gl.GenBuffer();
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.BufferData<float>(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, vertices, BufferUsageARB.DynamicDraw);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);
            Gl.DispatchCompute((uint)NUM_INVOCATIONS, 1, 1);
            Gl.MemoryBarrier(MemoryBarrierMask.ShaderStorageBarrierBit);
            Gl.BindBufferBase(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, 0, ssboIndex);

            float* returnValues = (float*)Gl.MapBuffer(BufferTargetARB.ShaderStorageBuffer, BufferAccessARB.ReadOnly);

            for (int i = 0; i < NUM_INVOCATIONS; i++)
            {
                 Console.WriteLine(returnValues[i]);
            }

I

Invar•10/30/22, 4:15 PM

The above snippet with my shader.comp snippet should be a complete working example of passing a ssbo to computer shader, modifying it and retrieving its value.

MMrTwix Hi, I'm new to Silk.NET and was wondering what the third parameters of the KeyDo...

S

Spec-Chum•10/30/22, 4:28 PM

I can't see anything either - I had assumed it was a modifier, like to check if Shift etc was pressed, but I'm not sure - even the keyboard tests have it as a discard

That said, for them this is also just inventarization for if they even want to expand to doing game

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