pretty sure there's a video out there (quick search & I can't find the forum it's on) but basically

pretty sure there's a video out there (quick search & I can't find the forum it's on) but basically someone is trying to get the vkb owner to understand the need/benefits of ffb & they even take him on a flight, at the end of the video he still doesn't change his mind on ffb joysticks being a benefit for immersion etc.

PiNKSH!TOP•2/14/23, 7:42 AM

also the main things that killed ffb joysticks were; more & more games other than flight sims not using joysticks anymore, at around the same time flight sim popularity took a massive dive in the early 2000's, so less games using joysticks, less people playing the sims that still used it & then there's always the factor not everyone wanted a ffb joystick. I believe the patent troll "Immersion Corp" had a small hand in it also being that anyone that did want to make a ffb joystick using any of those designs would also have to pay for the patent. So ffb ended up being a niche product in a niche market & that's not something big companies that could afford a patent fee want to get into & it's enough to keep out small companies. The whole patent troll thing is arguable about it's effects from what I've seen on the subject.

DDrQuinn These guys hold all the patents. https://www.immersion.com

aniron•2/14/23, 7:59 AM

They expired.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/bmnr8f/as_of_today_immersion_corps_force_feedback/

r/hotas - As of today, Immersion Corp's Force Feedback patents have...

79 votes and 22 comments so far on Reddit

Wwalmis They're building their TECS though

PiNKSH!TOP•2/14/23, 8:40 AM

I have a really fun game I play were whenever I find the TECS mentioned I tell ppl that it was a joke from VKB that got out of hand & there isn't really a TECS being built. It's so funny to see the reactions of ppl, some believe me, some don't & get angry & most just laugh

walmis•2/14/23, 8:41 AM

Also TECS get's delayed by 2 weeks everytime it's mentioned. TECS.

Wwalmis For example it could be possible to make a Rhino into a gear shifter lol.

PiNKSH!TOP•2/14/23, 8:47 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aOr4thXyqA&ab_channel=PcmciaKai FF Shifter is the software

YouTubePcmciaKai

FFShifter in LFS (MS Force Feedback 2)

I set up my Microsoft Force Feedback 2 with the FFShifter program by Andreas Panos and drove in "Live For Speed". Note, that I didn't concentrate at all on driving, in next videos I will think of a way to mount my phone cam. :P

Get LFS:
http://www.lfs.net/

Download FFShifter:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1suH_XfhFalpkX6zTDx5uqS1HxDTkRu9e/v...

PPiNKSH!T pretty sure there's a video out there (quick search & I can't find the forum it'...

DeadlyMercury•2/14/23, 9:17 AM

pretty opposite though

DeadlyMercury•2/14/23, 9:17 AM

after that flight he said that yeah, ffb is a must

DeadlyMercury•2/14/23, 9:18 AM

and because of that there was a hope

AndyHill•2/14/23, 11:27 AM

FFB never really went away if you include steering wheels in the mix

AndyHill•2/14/23, 11:29 AM

the big problem with flight sim FFB was the choice of hardcore hotas stuff such as cougars, warthogs & CH stuff vs. typically simpler ffb sticks

AndyHill•2/14/23, 11:30 AM

when you split a small niche of hardcore weirdos who would potentially buy an ffb stick into stick functions vs ffb groups, there's not very many left to keep force stuffs going

Andesh•2/14/23, 12:40 PM

Wow.. i just found this today.. lovely initiative. i've been wanting my own force-feedback stick now for a couple of years... my brother had one back in the day.. i tried to figure out the price by looking in the FAQ section but i couldn't work it out.. any indication how much we're looking at here?

Kruger•2/14/23, 12:54 PM

What is the price of the VPforce RHIINO FFB Base?
The RHINO costs 800€ + shipping

The first line of the FAQ
Or do you mean a motorsez

Andesh•2/14/23, 12:55 PM

umm.. is the 800euro with motors or not?

Andesh•2/14/23, 12:55 PM

or are the motors som option?

Kruger•2/14/23, 1:08 PM

800 for a rhino

Please read the FAQ carefully for further information

AAndesh umm.. is the 800euro with motors or not?

walmis•2/14/23, 1:09 PM

This is for the complete, plug-and-play base (without grip)

PiNKSH!TOP•2/14/23, 1:39 PM

Has anyone here got any experience with Komodo Simulations sim gear?

PPiNKSH!T Has anyone here got any experience with Komodo Simulations sim gear?

Anthony•2/14/23, 1:50 PM

Yeah, it’s frankly awful

Anthony•2/14/23, 1:50 PM

Spent only €100 less than what a Rhino base would cost for a B8 cyclic and base

Anthony•2/14/23, 1:51 PM

The base couldn’t keep the cyclic in place as advertised, and the grip was sub Saitek quality

Anthony•2/14/23, 1:52 PM

I’ve not heard of a single satisfied Komodo customer in the ten years since that disappointing experience

AAnthony Yeah, it’s frankly awful

PiNKSH!TOP•2/14/23, 2:02 PM

Ahh ok I checked them out a while back maybe 2 yrs & just having a look again now it seem they've changed the 3d printing they used to have for a nylon/resin print, looks a bit better quality. The price is crazy though! It's just a shame cause they have such a good collection, the Apache collective & cyclic grips & the ones for the Kiowa would be great to have. Shame their collective/cyclic grips don't use the thrustmaster style connection & could work with Virpil collective/joystick bases. I'd love to have a VPforce adapter for their joystick grips to fit the RHINO base.

Anthony•2/14/23, 2:05 PM

I suppose it’s easy to offer a wide range of products if you don’t have too many qualms about quality

AAnthony I suppose it’s easy to offer a wide range of products if you don’t have too many...

PiNKSH!TOP•2/14/23, 2:06 PM

yeah for sure, can't understand how they justify such high prices too if the quality is so bad, like if the money isn't going into high quality buttons & switches then where? lol

Anthony•2/14/23, 2:06 PM

VPC is planning an Apache collective in Q3

Anthony•2/14/23, 2:08 PM

I’m guessing it’s just down to the costs of running a business in Western Europe/America as opposed to Eastern Europe/China

Anthony•2/14/23, 2:08 PM

And garage operations obv don’t really get enough orders to benefit from mass production

AAnthony VPC is planning an Apache collective in Q3

PiNKSH!TOP•2/14/23, 2:10 PM

oh cool, been wondering when they'd release one, I was starting to wonder if Winwing might get around to making one before Virpil

AAndyHill when you split a small niche of hardcore weirdos who would potentially buy an ff...

mechsicko•2/14/23, 4:09 PM

This and it's also expensive as hell to buy as well as to manufacture

PPiNKSH!T 😆 I have a really fun game I play were whenever I find the TECS mentioned I te...

Stoned Kakapo•2/14/23, 6:50 PM

Save money and use super taurus as main throttle

TECS looks like a toy kind of like the virpil throttles, and that tiny travel distance

SStoned Kakapo Save money and use super taurus as main throttle 😀 TECS looks like a toy kind o...

DeltaVJ•2/14/23, 7:04 PM

Heard winwing's Button quality is not good compared to vkb and virpil

DDeltaVJ Heard winwing's Button quality is not good compared to vkb and virpil

Stoned Kakapo•2/14/23, 7:19 PM

Very minor differences, not enough to really matter I feel (have virpil and vkb products). The super taurus buttons and switches feel pretty solid. Had the throttle since early 2020 and haven't had any issues

Jon (Bounty_V)•2/14/23, 9:17 PM

I'd say the key differences lay in customer service and shipping. Much cheaper, depending on where you are geographically, to ship something from VKB or Virpil than WinWing. All of WinWing products ship from China, so even something basic you're looking at over $100 usd for shipping. Also if your order is over $800 usd you get to pay some nice additional fees (import tariffs etc.).

While I'm sure the majority of people have great experiences with customer service, I've seen a lot of complaints in the r/hotas discord about poor customer service experiences that essentially boiled down to having to self repair, or just outright buy another product and not being provided anything even though things were under warranty.

That being said, WinWing offers a lot of things no one else does, and they do a good job with those things only they offer. Just doesn't hurt to do some research into all of them and weigh the pros and cons before deciding what you get.

Jon (Bounty_V)•2/14/23, 9:18 PM

I personally want to get their big MFD panel combo one day. The one with all 3, the UFC, and the screens.

SStoned Kakapo Save money and use super taurus as main throttle 😀 TECS looks like a toy kind o...

inpayne•2/15/23, 3:15 AM

The virpil throttle has about the same travel as the jet I fly in real life… I don’t find it lacking one bit.

JJon (Bounty_V)I'd say the key differences lay in customer service and shipping. Much cheaper, ...

ddrake1984•2/15/23, 3:47 AM

Yup, r/hotas is a spot for complaints all right.

lots of people think that self repair is too much work, while others prefer it. Honestly, if self repair is beyond someone, then maybe they need to factor that in when purchasing. Maybe a cheaper product with ability to throw in the bin is better.

Not having a dig, just my view of what I see

DDeltaVJ Heard winwing's Button quality is not good compared to vkb and virpil

ddrake1984•2/15/23, 3:49 AM

Dont believe subjective opinions, some of these people who talk to such things don’t own a WW product and I see this alot, people echo chamber opinions over facts.

ddrake1984•2/15/23, 3:50 AM

Some even downright are abusive to Chinese products purely because of where they are manufactured

ddrake1984•2/15/23, 3:50 AM

I don’t agree with the government, but that doesn’t mean all their products are shit

DDeltaVJ Heard winwing's Button quality is not good compared to vkb and virpil

PiNKSH!TOP•2/15/23, 4:26 AM

I own the VKB MCGU, KG12 grips & Gunfighter 3 base plus NXT & EVO's with space grips I will say VKB feels really well made & very nice quality, however I also own the Winwing Orion 2 f18 throttle & the switches & buttons feel really nice, the 5 way hat switches on the throttle grip are some of the nicest feeling & high quality HAT's I've used. I think the quality of Winwing is extremely good at least with the Orion 2 throttle, hopefully I'll have the WW F-18 stick grip soon too.