Silk.NET•3y ago

ah okay, I guess then this link is wrong <https://github.com/gfx-rs/wgpu-native#bindings> <:thonkdor

ah okay, I guess then this link is wrong <:thonkdor

darth · 2023-04-08T00:11:27.205Z

ah okay, I guess then this link is wrong since it's in a list of wgpu bindings

ah okay, I guess then this link is wrong https://github.com/gfx-rs/wgpu-native#bindings thonkdorp

since it's in a list of wgpu bindings

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:11 AM

thanks for explaining!

Ddarth ah okay, I guess then this link is wrong <https://github.com/gfx-rs/wgpu-native#...

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:11 AM

no the link is correct

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:12 AM

but i dont know what you mean by "backend" here

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:13 AM

but if the link is correct, than silk runs on top of wgpu-native?

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:13 AM

like, are the vulkan bindings in silk direct vulkan, or through wgpu-native?

Ddarth but if the link is correct, than silk runs on top of wgpu-native?

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:14 AM

what do you think bindings mean

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:14 AM

C API exposed to C# directly

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:14 AM

yes

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:14 AM

we provide WebGPU bindings

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:14 AM

and other APIs

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:15 AM

but wgpu-native is not just webgpu, it runs on top of vulkan, directx12, opengl, etc. no?

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:15 AM

or do you use wgpu-native just for the webgpu part?

Ddarth but wgpu-native is not just webgpu, it runs on top of vulkan, directx12, opengl,...

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:15 AM

yes, im not sure how thats relavent though

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:16 AM

I mean the readme for silk says

providing bindings to popular low-level APIs such as OpenGL, OpenCL, OpenAL, OpenXR, GLFW, SDL, Vulkan, Assimp, WebGPU, and DirectX

but if you're using webgpu through wgpu-native, does that mean I can also get opengl/directx/metal through wgpu-native when using silk?

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:17 AM

we just call directly into wgpu-native, so you get whatever they support

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:18 AM

ohh I see, I guess I just find the readme confusing a bit because that means I can get for example vulkan directly, or vulkan through wgpu-native

but I get it now

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:18 AM

but the OpenGL/DX/VK in the readme has nothing to do with WebGPU we also bind to those separately

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:19 AM

yeah that makes sense, but I mean WebGPU and wgpu-native are not the same thing from my understanding? WebGPU is just one of the backends of wgpu-native?

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:19 AM

I guess there's a distinction of "WebGPU the API" and "WebGPU on the web in a browser"

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:19 AM

wgpu-native is an implementation of the C api of WebGPU

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:19 AM

and you mean the former while I thought it meant the latter

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:20 AM

WebGPU in the readme refers to the standardized WebGPU C API

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:20 AM

oh right yeah, my confusion is coming from rust I'm basically treating https://github.com/gfx-rs/wgpu (which wgpu-native runs on) as "an API that has multiple backends, webgpu being one of them", but from silk's side this means a different thing

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:21 AM

you are thinking about wgpu wrong

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:21 AM

it does not have a "webgpu backend"
it is the webgpu API

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:21 AM

yes it is the webgpu API, but on the web it can either run on top of webgl or on top of actual webgpu support in the browser if it's available

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:22 AM

but I get it, I didn't realize it was literally the webgpu api itself

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:23 AM

I thought webgpu was just one of its backends, because I'm currently literally using wgpu on top of webgl/vulkan/directx in my projects, and since webgpu wasn't available until basically today (chrome just added it in stable) I didn't think of it that much

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:24 AM

the "webgpu backend" is just a shim for emscripten to pass the calls to the JS API, which then pass down through the browser to the C API

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:24 AM

makes sense :>

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:26 AM

they don't even list it in the architecture diagram heh, I guess more confusion

Kai•4/8/23, 12:28 AM

webgpu is not necessarily the same as wgpu

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:28 AM

Kai•4/8/23, 12:28 AM

in rust many things are dependent on wgpu, but webgpu is a separate web standard for web apps and that sort of thing

Kai•4/8/23, 12:29 AM

also mentioning servo in that diagram is laughable at best

KKai also mentioning servo in that diagram is laughable at best

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:29 AM

it was kicked off again with funding recently

Kai•4/8/23, 12:29 AM

kicked off*

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:29 AM

yup that is how i spelled it when

KKai in rust many things are dependent on wgpu, but webgpu is a separate web standard...

darthOP•4/8/23, 12:30 AM

right, but just to make sure I understand, wgpu-native is the implementation for desktop, then there's browsers that have to do it themselves, and that's basically it? I'd assume wgpu can also run on (as in provide the webgpu API) mobile since vulkan/metal backend?

Kai•4/8/23, 12:31 AM

yes? I'm not sure, I'm just saying that wgpu is so good that many rust projects just also use it as an abstraction

Kai•4/8/23, 12:31 AM

but webgpu is largely unrelated

Kai•4/8/23, 12:31 AM

I mean wgpu is just an implementation detail of webgpu iirc

Ddarth right, but just to make sure I understand, wgpu-native is _the implementation_ f...

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:32 AM

wgpu-native isnt the implementation for desktop, wgpu-core and wgpu-hal is, wgpu-native just provides the agreed upon standard C interface for WebGPU

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:32 AM

using wgpu-core

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:33 AM

as kai said wgpu is an implementation detail

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:33 AM

we also support Dawn

Lyris the Kitori•4/8/23, 12:33 AM

to replace wgpu