Thought some folks in here might appreciate my collective design I've been working on for the past c

Thought some folks in here might appreciate my collective design I've been working on for the past couple days.

I said I wanted a FFB Collective. I ordered a single motor kit.. now its time to put my mouth where my money is

I borrowed some concepts from my current DIY Collective, which in turn borrowed many a lot of concepts from (and started its life as) the Beyond-3D collective design.

Modeled with a fictional left-handed Warthog grip because a 3d model of the Virpil Alpha-L (non-Prime), which I will put on it, does not exist :D...

Still quite a bit of design work left and then a lot of trial and error getting the parts so they print correctly.

Main shaft will be a 30mm aluminum tube (24mm ID, so a good amount of meat to thread into).

Also did a little animation because... why not...

NNumber481 Thought some folks in here might appreciate my collective design I've been worki...

walmis•5/30/23, 4:37 AM

Looks awesome, but I can imagine there would be some backlash on the gears.

ddrake1984•5/30/23, 6:10 AM

If can do similar to rhino and use a pulley?

ddrake1984•5/30/23, 6:10 AM

Id be interested in a VPForce Collective

JJIGGAwest anyone fly the gazelle with the VPforce base? The force trim system seems to beh...

Anthony•5/30/23, 7:49 AM

Yup, gave it another go when I got my Rhino up and going.

It’s buggered beyond belief. I’m hoping for the best regarding their finally reworking the FM… but considering how many years they had their fingers in their ears and just shouted insults at everyone who pointed out the flaws, I’m not going to expect anything

Jon (Bounty_V)•5/30/23, 7:54 AM

They threatened to dox someone I know who was pointing out said flaws

Jon (Bounty_V)•5/30/23, 7:56 AM

Being mean to your customers who can't possibly know why things aren't being fixed or are delayed because you don't tell them (eventually did, health issues with 1 key employee etc.) isn't a good look imo

Jon (Bounty_V)•5/30/23, 7:57 AM

opinions on the dev aside, "supposedly" FFB is included in the OH-58

Jon (Bounty_V)•5/30/23, 7:59 AM

If the new FM for the Gaz makes FFB enjoyable to use I'll definitely pick up the module

VPforceBot•5/30/23, 8:52 AM

:package:

RHINO #0112 Has Shipped!

JJon (Bounty_V)They threatened to dox someone I know who was pointing out said flaws

Anthony•5/30/23, 9:54 AM

Classy!

Bob Bushman•5/30/23, 11:03 AM

Why is there so many devs in the flight sim community who thinks taking customer management tips from Derek Smart was a good idea

(And if you catch that reference you a deserve a prize)

AndyHill•5/30/23, 11:03 AM

I guess I'm a rather prejudiced and not very open minded person, but I'm not holding my breath in excitement waiting for the '58

AndyHill•5/30/23, 11:04 AM

at least derek knew how to advertize his product

Bob Bushman•5/30/23, 11:04 AM

It's an instant.
"Trial when available with no intention to buy" for me

Anthony•5/30/23, 11:10 AM

Pretty much yeah

Anthony•5/30/23, 11:10 AM

Even if they knock the Gazelle and the Kiowa out of the park, I’m not getting it

Anthony•5/30/23, 11:11 AM

There’s a limit to the lies, rudeness and sheer incompetence

Wwalmis Looks awesome, but I can imagine there would be some backlash on the gears.

Number481OP•5/30/23, 11:33 AM

As I started thinking about the design, the direct gear drive was one of my primary concerns. It's how it is in my currently in my production collective, however the main gear is just driving a smaller gear attached to a rotary damper which contains the magnet being read for the axis.

The precision is fine, but you can "feel" the gears through the handle. A lot of that though is because the geometry isn't quite perfect. The main parts on that unit are all referenced from imports from the original design. Which I found out as I set out to build the FFB design, are every so slightly off.

I sat and looked at my current design for a good while, thinking about how I could incorporate a pully driven system, but couldn't think of a good way without making the whole contraption significantly larger, or more complex.

But that was before I ended up just re-designing all the parts, as opposed to modifying and referencing my existing design. Now that I am looking at this again after reading your comment, I think this might be possible...

AAnthony Yup, gave it another go when I got my Rhino up and going. It’s buggered beyond ...

JIGGAwest•5/30/23, 3:14 PM

I got a reply from polychop yesterday that Forcefeedback wasn't enabled. But the next major update(June?) it will be available. So we'll see what the new flight model has in store.

NNumber481 As I started thinking about the design, the direct gear drive was one of my prim...

Number481OP•5/30/23, 4:11 PM

This might work... now I just have to figure out how to design the gears and adjust the positions to work with a timing belt...

Boosted•5/30/23, 6:56 PM

Polychop (and a few other devs), didn't have access to a ffb stick and it's not baked into DCS as you'd think. That's why it doesn't work. Since there's a new FM coder and he just got a ffb, it's being added while he reworks everything.

Number481OP•5/31/23, 1:35 AM

Can anyone offer any advice on pulley design/positioning with HTD 5 belts?

I found a nice parametric pulley design project for 'Inventor' (30 day free trial FTW) that makes it easy to spit out HDT 5mm pulleys of any tooth count, and tells you the PD of the completed pulley (also found one for Openscad). So, its easy enough to model the corresponding PD circles in Fusion at a given distance from each other, draw the tangent lines and measure the path length.

Question I have is, How near to spot-on does the "path around the pitch diameters" need to be to the advertised length of the belt in order to achieve the proper tension? As close to spot-on as possible without being under? A little bit longer to increase tension? How much longer?

Hoping someone who's been through this with their DIY kits can chime in

Comrade_Weng•5/31/23, 2:32 AM

@_gunzablazin I use Creo and started by sketching my drive system. I set the perimeter to be fixed at 450mm and allowed Creo to control a variable to make my geometry work, in this case the lateral distance of my driving pulley from the centreline. I used the nominal pulley diameters. I provided slotted holes centred on nominal position of the small pulley to allow installation and tensioning. Not much tension is required. The belts will not stretch under hand loads or the really small loads that this system generated.

rn_image_picker_lib_temp_d064c21a-ceae-42bf-a0ad-ed3d64584887.jpg

Comrade_Weng•5/31/23, 2:33 AM

You can see the computer variable dimension here, didn't realise it was obscured on the other image

rn_image_picker_lib_temp_08208d8f-f7bd-4102-b5ca-06e49e90da3c.jpg

Comrade_Weng•5/31/23, 2:34 AM

Slotted holes centres on the nominal position.

rn_image_picker_lib_temp_4f53c88d-639a-4616-ae0a-c7f7bf2662ac.jpg

Comrade_Weng•5/31/23, 2:35 AM

Following installation, the drive motor sits exactly where I designed it to sit, in the middle of the slot.

CComrade_Weng @_gunzablazin I use Creo and started by sketching my drive system. I set the per...

Number481OP•5/31/23, 2:53 AM

Thanks a ton! Sounds like I am more or less on the right path, just using a more simplistic approach with more simplistic tools. I imagine that's probably something you could do in Autodesk Inventor, but I probably don't have time to learn it well enough in my 30 day trial..lol.

My approach thus far, trying to nail a belt length has been something like this... If I go with the slotted mounting hole approach, it makes it a lot easier...

Comrade_Weng•5/31/23, 3:02 AM

You will mainly need the slots to get the belt on. To calculate your perimeter there is an equation in the gates handbook from memory. They also have a free app called design power which will do it for you.

Troll 🇸🇪 🇳🇴•5/31/23, 11:43 AM

I’m going to fasten my belt with screws, in the large pulley. That way I can just cut the belt at the nearest “cog”. The large pulley doesn’t rotate more than +/- 20-30° anyway.

TTroll 🇸🇪 🇳🇴I’m going to fasten my belt with screws, in the large pulley. That way I can jus...

Number481OP•5/31/23, 4:51 PM

Thats definitely an option, and probably a lot easier than sourcing a specific, potentially obscure length closed loop belt. I've seen 350mm belts as low as $3 and a 355mm belt was $12 from the same seller..

Comrade_Weng•5/31/23, 10:24 PM

@t_oll @_gunzablazin I suggest designing for the belt size you want or can get. Htd5 15mm belts are available here in Australia for not much and start at about 180mm length and go up in 5-10mm increments. Depending on the belt they have steel or fibre reinforcements. Once you drill them the belt probably wouldn't last long due to the stress concentration. Clamping is an option which is done in linear systems.

Number481OP•6/1/23, 12:58 AM

Update for anyone interested.. This is where I'm at trying to adapt the design to belt driven. I had to reduce the gear ratio to 4:1 (60T/15T) in order to get the pulleys to fit, and to seem like I had enough teeth engaging the belt on the small pulley. I might be able to go down to a 14, but a 12 or 13 tooth wouldn't have many teeth engaged.

I could, of course, make the whole thing bigger.. but I have to consider the print volume of my printer (180mm3 Prusa Mini).

Not really concerned about lack of force at 4:1 vs 5:1 or 6:1, was just thinking that the farther I can drive the motor, the more precision I'll have on the axis.

Number481OP•6/1/23, 12:59 AM

@walmis Maybe we need a DIY Projects channel so people like me don't muddy up the General channel showing off their science projects

NNumber481 @walmis Maybe we need a DIY Projects channel so people like me don't muddy up th...

Jon (Bounty_V)•6/1/23, 1:53 AM

in the meantime you could make a new post in #

knowledge-base for it

NNumber481 @walmis Maybe we need a DIY Projects channel so people like me don't muddy up th...

mechsicko•6/1/23, 2:42 AM

This is the the showcase channel basically is

papiplanes•6/1/23, 3:13 AM

Question, I got on the waitlist twice. Will my first submission count for my spot in line?

Ppapiplanes Question, I got on the waitlist twice. Will my first submission count for my spo...

walmis•6/1/23, 4:27 AM

Sure

NNumber481 @walmis Maybe we need a DIY Projects channel so people like me don't muddy up th...

walmis•6/1/23, 4:28 AM

FYI Rhino has 12T pulleys

CComrade_Weng @t_oll @_gunzablazin I suggest designing for the belt size you want or can get. ...

Troll 🇸🇪 🇳🇴•6/1/23, 5:26 AM

I appreciate your concern, however, the pulley can turn 70° either way, before the screw becomes the bearing part of the belt. It will only turn 20° so worst case, 13 belt cogs will be sharing the load with the screw. The screw (and washer) is basically just pulling the belt down to the pulley. It won’t be seeing much of the belt tension. But, as always, if it doesn’t work I’ll just redesign.

NNumber481 Update for anyone interested.. This is where I'm at trying to adapt the design ...

slowmover•6/1/23, 5:40 AM

I am really interested for this project. I am fallowing

slowmover•6/1/23, 6:35 AM

I will suggest to put the motor inside the base under the metal tube to save some space

VPforceBot•6/1/23, 7:21 AM

:package:

RHINO #0107 Has Shipped!

VPforceBot•6/1/23, 7:21 AM

:package:

RHINO #0110 Has Shipped!

Bob Bushman•6/1/23, 8:00 AM

"Three hundred and eighty-five bottles of beer in the wall.
Take one down, pass it around. Drink it all down.
Three hundred and eighty-four bottles of beer in the wall"

VPforceBot•6/1/23, 8:41 AM

:package:

RHINO #0115 Has Shipped!

AndyHill•6/1/23, 11:16 AM

sounds like a party

VPforceBot•6/1/23, 12:58 PM

:package:

RHINO #0118 Has Shipped!

Wwalmis FYI Rhino has 12T pulleys

Number481OP•6/1/23, 1:11 PM

Sure enough it does... I have my shrouds covering mine up and was too lazy to remove them so I was looking at pictures from the photo spread on imgur, which looks like it had 20T gears on it

walmis•6/1/23, 1:17 PM

Yeah, the first few rhinos had slightly larger pulleys

Asdforce•6/1/23, 3:23 PM

105 made it home

rn_image_picker_lib_temp_7dcce5bd-5c86-4972-bd47-e1be0ff15acf.jpg

Thought some folks in here might appreciate my collective design I've been working on for the past c

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