I can only slightly understand the DCS rudder FFB talk, but I assume completely outside of any suppo

I can only slightly understand the DCS rudder FFB talk, but I assume completely outside of any support etc., adding FFB to pedals would at least still function the way Rhino does for cyclic in terms of holding in place until you do another input again yes? So less steps than removing springs from MFG crosswinds and using the damper

JJon (Bounty_V)I can only slightly understand the DCS rudder FFB talk, but I assume completely ...

blave549•8/13/23, 8:19 PM

I have the MFGs with damper and a very lightly loaded spring, which provides a very nice feel. I can't imagine FFB providing much added value, at least as compared to the effort and $ to FFB-itize the pedals, other than maybe feeling runway bumps and such (which are meaningless in a heli on skids). But regardless, I think the biggest problem is the lack of suitable telemetry coming from the sims (DCS and MSFS). But then again Walmis and Numbah481 have pulled several rabbits out of the hat such that the Rhino has exceeded my (high) expections even at this early stage, so maybe there's something to this. HeckIdontknow.

Maybe said better -- I got an NLR HF8 rumble seatpad at almost the same time as the Rhino, and the combination is very satisfying in both MSFS and DCS. The HF-8 is only about US$200 (Amazon) -- and there's no assembly required other than strapping it to your seat. So -- thus far I'm not missing FFB in the pedals. Oh, and helicopters (at least the ones that I've flown) have very light pedal forces, and I don't remember feeling much mechanical feedback from them at all.

MMashedPotato Z-X*0.8/24=wait time in months. Z= your SN, X=most recent shipped SN

Asger•8/13/23, 8:21 PM

Where is the recent SN shipped shown?

AAsger Where is the recent SN shipped shown?

MashedPotato•8/13/23, 8:21 PM

The bot spams it out, scroll up in the chat

AAsger Where is the recent SN shipped shown?

MashedPotato•8/13/23, 8:22 PM

166 is current

Asger•8/13/23, 8:23 PM

Found it thanks

Asger•8/13/23, 8:25 PM

Actually is a bit easier then. When you message “!info email account” the bot tells you how many rhinos are left to reach your SN.

JJon (Bounty_V)I can only slightly understand the DCS rudder FFB talk, but I assume completely ...

Number481•8/13/23, 8:37 PM

The (potential) benefits of FFB pedals can be summed up as
1.) Versatility
2.) Realistic feedback (where applicable)
3.) Haptic effects (for "immersion")

I can switch between sprung, hydraulic, free-wheeling programmatically

With MSFS (and I hope eventually DCS), for aircraft where it makes sense, the pedals will be floppy when cold and dark, have some resistance when there is prop thrust, and increase in spring resistance as the airspeed increases. They also react to slip angle so they are harder to push the higher the slip angle.

Ideally (though they currently dont), they would also reflect trimming action, both in FW and Rotor when applicable

And, who doesn't want their feet to vibrate when you BRRRRRRT in the A10?

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•8/13/23, 8:41 PM

i want my whole house to vibrate when i brrrrt in the a10

JJon (Bounty_V)i want my whole house to vibrate when i brrrrt in the a10

Jehly•8/13/23, 8:46 PM

https://tenor.com/view/mandalorian-this-is-the-way-gif-24826742

Tenor

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•8/13/23, 8:47 PM

https://tenor.com/view/rally-truck-gif-12371307

Tenor

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•8/13/23, 8:47 PM

my cockpit should be able to do this ^

AndyHill•8/13/23, 8:51 PM

there's also a specific case where you're on a strafing run, focusing on the target and you basically need to just guess what the rudder is doing as your plane's trim inevitable changes with acceleration

AndyHill•8/13/23, 8:51 PM

I don't know but maybe having some feel in your feet could tell you what's going on before your aim starts to drift

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•8/13/23, 8:52 PM

there's rumble packs you can put on racing pedals to receive all sorts of useful information, would be interesting to see something similar added to rudder pedals, in addition to ffb

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•8/13/23, 8:53 PM

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•8/13/23, 8:54 PM

the new simucube active ffb pedals do something similar for braking as well, to what you want for rudder drift

that information would be incredibly helpful and useful.

Bblave549 wow your hardware is almost exactly the same as mine. Just upgraded from a Virpi...

Ramasurinen (Mike Johnson)•8/13/23, 10:22 PM

@_blave Thanks! My setup feels a little basic compared to many amazing ones I've seen here, but I'm a little hamstrung as I have to use my machine for work 99% of the time and don't have room for a proper dedicated sim pit. I'm already in love with the Rhino. Really missed FFB, for the past twenty years haha.

AAndyHill there's also a specific case where you're on a strafing run, focusing on the tar...

Number481•8/13/23, 10:42 PM

If it was as simple as mimicking what the pedals are doing the game, that would be “not too hard” to implement. If it was something that needed to be calculated, it would both require the right telemetry as well as someone (not me) smart enough to figure out what said calculation should be.

AAsger Actually is a bit easier then. When you message “!info email account” the bot te...

MashedPotato•8/13/23, 10:50 PM

Ah ha! That's why I didn't include it in my first formula. The last time I ran the numbers for myself I didn't remember subtracting, I just used the number from the bot

AndyHill•8/13/23, 11:46 PM

I don't know what the calculations would have to be, ideally the pedals' behavior would come straight from the simulator

AndyHill•8/13/23, 11:48 PM

we're looking at a potentially pretty severe chicken and egg problem, though, since not only is ffb kind of neglected for decades now, but ffb pedals have pretty much never existed

AndyHill•8/13/23, 11:48 PM

we'd have to get someone at ED and the Il-2 team really excited about ffb

NNumber481 The (potential) benefits of FFB pedals can be summed up as 1.) Versatility 2.) ...

blave549•8/13/23, 11:58 PM

OK I'm getting it. Disregard my naysayer comments. I will say that if someone made a kit to mod my MFGs to FFB, I would be sorely tempted... As if I need to spend more $ on this hobby/obsession.

AndyHill•8/13/23, 11:59 PM

of course the same benefits of what you get from the rhino would still apply as in amazing, non-springy feel and all the adjustability

Bblave549 OK I'm getting it. Disregard my naysayer comments. I will say that if someone ma...

Jehly•8/14/23, 12:00 AM

There’s plans in here, ya know…

Jehly•8/14/23, 12:00 AM

Already got my virpils being modded.

JJehly There’s plans in here, ya know…

blave549•8/14/23, 12:00 AM

I lack the skilz/machinery to do my own.

Jehly•8/14/23, 12:01 AM

If you have a 3d printer. You’re good. If not, there’s services available.

Jon (Bounty_V)OP•8/14/23, 12:06 AM

Even sim racing, is only now slowly getting ffb and rumble in pedals. Fanatec has been the only brand to offer it directly on pedals for a long time, and ofc there's the basically diy solution one dude sells I shared a pic of, and now Simagic has rumble modules for their p1000 pedals, and Simucube is just now starting to ship out their active pedal to fulfill preorders.

Haptic seat pads are making a comeback to mainstream with NextLevelRacing's HF8, and buttkicker is also becoming more and more popular.

It is only a matter of time before rumble or haptics in racing pedals becomes a must have feature for flagship products all sim peripheral brands put out, and then with the massive popularity of MSFS, and 2024 going to be an INSANE game, people who are exposed to flight sim after being hardcore racing enthusiasts will start asking where tf the ffb and haptics are for that, having been used to it from racing.

The trickle down is sadly very slow it seems, and who can hardly blame flight sim game devs for not implementing features when no hardware exists to utilize the features save for people with 30k-500k commercial training rigs who do their own in house stuff anyway.

Places like news outlets giving the Rhino some exposure will definitely help, and at least module makers seem more responsive (as in priority wise actually have the time to implement sooner) than sim devs directly.

I think the best thing we can do, in addition to continually reminding ED, and IL2 devs etc. that FFB exists and we want features, is to keep an eye on any new sim that gets announced, and try to get devs for those on board as early as possible. Combat Pilot, a recently announced WW2 Pacific flight sim is a great example of such opportunities.

recoilfx•8/14/23, 5:05 AM

Well I actually added these mini transducers to my VKB pedals. They vibrate depending on the slip of the airplane so I can fly coordinated flight without looking at the slip ball all the time. The software end is actually a stripped down version of telemFfb playing audio to the usb sound card that powers these little pucks. Works great.

Rrecoilfx Well I actually added these mini transducers to my VKB pedals. They vibrate depe...

ee.man•8/14/23, 5:06 AM

Which transducer are those? Would love to know!

Eee.man Which transducer are those? Would love to know!

recoilfx•8/14/23, 5:07 AM

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B074H4S71B?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title just these generic ones that you can find anywhere.

Walfront Resonance Speaker,1Pcs 50MM 2Inch All Frequency Resonance ...

Specifications: Color: steel Impedance power(Optional): 4 Ω 25 w; 8 Ω 20 w Type: electrodynamic (moving coil) Shape: round Diaphragm material: non-paper Magnetic circuit form: internal magnetic type Frequency characteristics: full spectrum band (full range) Rated power: 25W Frequency response: 20...

Rrecoilfx Well I actually added these mini transducers to my VKB pedals. They vibrate depe...

Seattime•8/14/23, 5:43 AM

Since I fitted a FFB stick, I can normally feel if the aircraft is uncoordinated through the loading of the stick. Its actually one of the things that really impressed me.

SSeattime Since I fitted a FFB stick, I can normally feel if the aircraft is uncoordinated...

walmis•8/14/23, 5:55 AM

Can you elaborate a bit how does the uncoordinated turn should feel, i.e. what forces do contribute to this effect? Is it the sideways G loading effect?

Wwalmis Can you elaborate a bit how does the uncoordinated turn should feel, i.e. what f...

Seattime•8/14/23, 8:34 AM

In a real aircraft you feel it more through your body as the aircraft slips sideways, but with the FFB stick once you enter a turn it will load up (you need to then put some opposite pressure on the stick to balance the turn) until you balance with the rudders when it will unload to the point you can let go of the stick and still be turning but now coordinated. XPForce did this and now VPforce-TelemFFB does this. Originally I was able to enact this response by adjusting the G loading, but now it works standard. FI I can also feel it through my seat, as the internal back of the seat moves for sway. When I get a head mounted camera, I will upload a video of the stick, to explain it better. Old video of my seat on test attached.

Wwalmis Can you elaborate a bit how does the uncoordinated turn should feel, i.e. what f...

Snooper•8/14/23, 8:50 AM

Sorry for the words but you feel it in your ass, and if is a little too much you feel like you have been hanged by only one side of the body

Snooper•8/14/23, 8:51 AM

Only a 3 or 4 DOF motion could mimic it

SSnooper Only a 3 or 4 DOF motion could mimic it

Seattime•8/14/23, 10:41 AM

Don't know if that was a reference to my video? If not disregard. Seat/Rig does sit on three big actuators..

. Simulation wise, there are good reasons for adding the active seatback and harness.

LeLv30_Superbus•8/14/23, 11:20 AM

Do real

have any kind of control loading systems for pedals and if they exist, what do they do?

AndyHill•8/14/23, 1:24 PM

with ffb pedals you could basically create an autorudder function since the slip ball data is pretty widely available in simulators and modules

AndyHill•8/14/23, 1:26 PM

I would of course only resort to such cheating in the cases where it's possible

SSeattime In a real aircraft you feel it more through your body as the aircraft slips side...

recoilfx•8/14/23, 1:40 PM

Hmm, I'm not sure if I can feel the uncoordinated turns in DCS with the Rhino + TelemFFB. Which effect was this? WIP version?

Rrecoilfx Hmm, I'm not sure if I can feel the uncoordinated turns in DCS with the Rhino + ...

walmis•8/14/23, 1:47 PM

This effect is currently in msfs only

recoilfx•8/14/23, 1:47 PM

Ahh ok - any plans on porting it over? I'd love to try it out

walmis•8/14/23, 1:48 PM

Yeah def will be added to DCS

recoilfx•8/14/23, 1:48 PM

Woot!

recoilfx•8/14/23, 1:53 PM

I just saw the updated firmware message - what is adaptive recentering for springs?

walmis•8/14/23, 1:54 PM

Number481•8/14/23, 1:55 PM

so many new capabilities to explore!!

recoilfx•8/14/23, 1:57 PM

Wow, awesome. I have the old "Don't fix it if it ain't broken" habit, but I need to try out this feature! Thanks Walmis!

I can only slightly understand the DCS rudder FFB talk, but I assume completely outside of any suppo

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