Silk.NET•3y ago

design RFC: should static methods be provided - on Vector3<T> (when doing generics, it'd be Vector3

design RFC: should static methods be provided

on Vector3<T> (when doing generics, it'd be Vector3<T>.Lerp<TFloat> for instance)
on static Vector3 (Vector3.Lerp<T, TFloat>, but for non-generic methods it wouldn't require specifying the <T>)
on both (pick whichever you want)
on static Vector3 only if the method is generic, otherwise on Vector3<T> (what i'm currently doing, but may be confusing to some)

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:42 PM

oh no, i've invoked tanner

Perksey•10/20/23, 11:46 PM

i don't know what's happening

Perksey•10/20/23, 11:46 PM

is this for silk

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:46 PM

someone was talking about generic Vector3, so i made a PoC

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:46 PM

i think it's for silk?

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:47 PM

i'm just entertained by things like this, and it's late on a friday

MMaxine the implementation of sin(x) for `byte` should just be a cast to float, get the ...

tannergooding•10/20/23, 11:47 PM

the problem here isn't how to do the computation
yes, it is very much intended to be done as floating-point and then cast to integer
(compute the infinitely precise result and round to the nearest representable result)

the problem comes in from how to implement that support generically and correctly
especially over time using where DIM implementations need to be provided

there also lies a slightly more general issue in that not everything can be represented equivalently
for example, Sqrt(-1.0f)Sqrt(-1.0f) produces NaNNaN, but it would have to throw for integer

likewise you end up not being able to represent infinites for trig functions
you end up with many other computations resulting in 0 or 1, regardless of input, due to it requiring fractional results

and so many operations functionally end up "pointless" for integrals

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:47 PM

good point

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:48 PM

i ended up not implementing cast to integer, though

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:48 PM

a function like Vector3.Distance, you obviously want a float

MMaxine design RFC: should static methods be provided - on Vector3<T> (when doing gener...

Perksey•10/20/23, 11:49 PM

i feel like if this is for silk we'd need a proposal-style API summary, this is really hard to visualise

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:49 PM

Vector3.DistanceSquared, that just gives you an integer, but it doesn't call sqrt at all

PPerksey i feel like if this is for silk we'd need a proposal-style API summary, this is ...

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:49 PM

i can do that

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:49 PM

PoC was just to see if this was realistically possible

Perksey•10/20/23, 11:49 PM

i managed to nerdsnipe someone in the Ryujinx Discord to add Obj-C support to ClangSharp btw

Perksey•10/20/23, 11:49 PM

hopefully that goes well

tannergooding•10/20/23, 11:50 PM

well DistanceDistance depends on if it's something like straight line distance or not

this is where I was discussion that a VectorVector represents what is functionally a magnitude (length) + direction
and so it is well suited to representing "euclidean" (straight line) distance

when you start getting to integers, this swaps and what you want is more the manhattan (or taxi cab) distance
or even representing the distance as a tuple

tannergooding•10/20/23, 11:50 PM

where it represents the edges of the triangle, rather than the hypotenuse

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:51 PM

my past uses of vector3int were just a float rounded to zero, so i never took that into consideration

tannergooding•10/20/23, 11:52 PM

and that's where having the distinction between VectorVector and PointPoint can be useful
because a VectorVector is largely only beneficial with floating-point, due to the operations it has to support

while the core things people do with PointPoint (or CoordinateCoordinate or ...) are less mathematical and can have core functionality filled in nicely still

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:52 PM

so, you're proposing having both as generic types?

Ttannergooding and that's where having the distinction between `Vector` and `Point` can be usef...

Aqua•10/20/23, 11:53 PM

this is why my generic math vectors only implement certain operations for floating point types, such as distance, and even length

tannergooding•10/20/23, 11:53 PM

right. Vector2<T> where T : IFloatingPoint<T>Vector2<T> where T : IFloatingPoint<T>
and Point2<T> where T : INumber<T>Point2<T> where T : INumber<T>

and allow conversion between them for cases like Point2<int> -> Vector2<float>Point2<int> -> Vector2<float> for example

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:53 PM

i like that

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:53 PM

there isn't any way to make an implicit cast from Vector3<float> to System.Numerics.Vector3, is there

AAqua this is why my generic math vectors only implement certain operations for floati...

tannergooding•10/20/23, 11:54 PM

I get that
but a fundamental component of a vectorvector is that it has a lengthlength
and so if you don't expose lengthlength, you don't have a vector

Aqua•10/20/23, 11:54 PM

yeah fair enough

tannergooding•10/20/23, 11:54 PM

that's where I then go, what's the next closest thing where it does make sense for integers as well
and I arrive at PointPoint/CoordinateCoordinate

Aqua•10/20/23, 11:55 PM

a lot of my reasoning for using generic math in the first place was to cut down on the number of stuff i'd need to write, i need integer vectors a lot and i simply need them to represent them as a 3-dimentional point, and its easier for me to just use a vector than create a point struct that does the same thing
for silk however I can understand why the distinction could and probably should be made

MMaxine there isn't any way to make an implicit cast from Vector3<float> to System.Numer...

tannergooding•10/20/23, 11:55 PM

not really, since casts can only be defined on the Vector<T>Vector<T> and so must support any Vector<T>Vector<T>, which means it might be lossless

this is where I'd define an .AsVector3().AsVector3() (or some qualified name that disambiguates here)

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:55 PM

yeah

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:55 PM

unfortunate, but workable

tannergooding•10/20/23, 11:56 PM

with "extension everything", you might be able to define an implicit conversion that works like that
but I'm not sure if that's on the table or not

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:56 PM

yeah that'll be awesome when it comes out in 2036

tannergooding•10/20/23, 11:57 PM

I think its in the working set for C# 13, so maybe sooner
but who knows, stuff gets pushed out all the time

MaxineOP•10/20/23, 11:57 PM

ooh

Ttannergooding with "extension everything", you might be able to define an implicit conversion ...

Aqua•10/20/23, 11:57 PM

i do have a question - is there any plan for built-in integer vector/point types in system.numerics? i assume not but doesn't hurt to ask

Perksey•10/20/23, 11:57 PM

who needs it when you have System.Drawing.Point when

Aqua•10/20/23, 11:58 PM

lol

AAqua i do have a question - is there any plan for built-in integer vector/point types...

tannergooding•10/21/23, 12:01 AM

I still plan on pushing through Vector2<T> where T : IFloatingPointIeee754<T>Vector2<T> where T : IFloatingPointIeee754<T>
I'd really like to also support integers, but convincing API review that a Point2<T> where T : INumber<T>Point2<T> where T : INumber<T> is appropriate won't be as easy

I don't have enough time to do everything of course, so I'm not sure what will get done in 9 vs not
ISimdVector<TSelf, T>ISimdVector<TSelf, T> is the thing I really want to finish next (might be internal only until language features come along)
and the Arm64 has SVE work that will likely happen in .NET 9

I'm going to try and finish the design proposal for Vector2<T>Vector2<T> in December
and that will also come alongside Vector3/4<T>Vector3/4<T>, Quaternion<T>Quaternion<T>, Plane<T>Plane<T>, Matrix4x4<T>Matrix4x4<T>
and Complex<T>Complex<T>

plus the general TensorPrimitivesTensorPrimitives work

MaxineOP•10/21/23, 12:01 AM

@grifon.petre can you send over your generic math lib, just for me to look

PPerksey who needs it when you have System.Drawing.Point <:when:712347014456672438>

Perksey•10/21/23, 12:01 AM

(this is what Silk.NET.Windowing used before Silk.NET.Maths existed)

MaxineOP•10/21/23, 12:02 AM

no proposal yet, but i wonder if it'd be worth it to implement more methods on the Vector3<T> (like what Unity does) or just do the System.Numerics ones

tannergooding•10/21/23, 12:03 AM

There is a proposal up already (via xoofx, from unity) for expanding Vector2/3/4 and Vector64/128/256/512<T> with the rest of the missing IFloatingPointIeee754<T> functions

and that will likely happen in .NET 9, since we're implementing them anyways for TensorPrimitivesTensorPrimitives

MMaxine @grifon.petre can you send over your generic math lib, just for me to look

Aqua•10/21/23, 12:04 AM

https://github.com/piegfx/Warp/tree/main/src/Warp.Math matrix and quaternion have varying levels of implementation (and a generic quaternion supporting int sounds frankly stupid so i'm not even sure i'll bother supporting it), but the rest i'm pretty sure is good

MaxineOP•10/21/23, 12:04 AM

thanks, tanner, i'll look into it

Aqua•10/21/23, 12:04 AM

i'm currently reworking my engine from scratch as i've changed the way i do things a bit, so this code will soon officially be MIT

MaxineOP•10/21/23, 12:04 AM

i won't copy your code, just your ideas :^)

Ttannergooding I still plan on pushing through `Vector2<T> where T : IFloatingPointIeee754<T>` ...

Aqua•10/21/23, 12:04 AM

oh right cool, that would be awesome to have in base .net

tannergooding•10/21/23, 12:05 AM

yep! The TensorPrimitivesTensorPrimitives are all nice too, since its going to be the full set of math functions
but over Span<T>Span<T> rather than fixed size vectors

design RFC: should static methods be provided - on Vector3<T> (when doing generics, it'd be Vector3

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