For some reason my Rhino is suddenly centering my stick in DCS when in helos. I've checked my settin

For some reason my Rhino is suddenly centering my stick in DCS when in helos. I've checked my settings (instant trimmer, recentering disabled in the vpforce control panel), not sure what I'm doing wrong. Is there something obvious I'm missing?

chkmgnt59•11/18/23, 11:17 PM

The winwing adapter has the plug so inset that the ww extension connector won't make contact. I figured I could take it apart and try and reseat the plug higher, but the screws stripped immediately. so.. i have a useless WW adapter

PPoor Yurik For some reason my Rhino is suddenly centering my stick in DCS when in helos. I'...

Number481•11/18/23, 11:38 PM

Can you describe more? Does force trim work at all? Does it happen with/without TelemFFB?

Cchkmgnt59 The winwing adapter has the plug so inset that the ww extension connector won't ...

A. Palmetto•11/19/23, 1:27 AM

Same, mine has two open pins.

NNumber481 Can you describe more? Does force trim work at all? Does it happen with/withou...

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:28 AM

Force trim works. It happens both with and without TelemFFB on.

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:32 AM

When I hold my trim button in the black shark, it turns off the spring and acts as I'd expect (allows me to let go to set a new center, etc.), but once I do, the recentering tension returns.

Number481•11/19/23, 4:53 AM

Happen in all helis? Did you maybe enable the force trim override in configurator and accidentally bind the trim reset to the force trim button you have bound in DCS?

Shooting in the dark. Not seen that behavior before.

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 5:50 AM

nope, only effect I have enabled in the vpforce cp right now is Hardware Force Trim

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 5:51 AM

I've only tried the shark so far. I'll try the Huey real quick

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 5:53 AM

Happening with the Huey and Hind too

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 5:56 AM

Could one of these settings be causing it?

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 5:57 AM

This is my Effects tab

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 6:10 AM

I'm running TelemFFB-wip-f71dbebb (just downloaded this update today), but it was also happening with two prior versions of TelemFFB that I've used.

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 6:12 AM

My workaround right now is to turn the spring dial to zero (dead stick with no effects).

Cchkmgnt59 The winwing adapter has the plug so inset that the ww extension connector won't ...

walmis•11/19/23, 6:53 AM

You mean the 6 pin female socket is too inset on the adapter and you can't plug in the WW extension?

PPoor Yurik nope, only effect I have enabled in the vpforce cp right now is Hardware Force T...

hcee.•11/19/23, 9:55 AM

Turn off the VPforce force trim effect. DCS choppers (at least KA-50 and UH-H1) already implement ffb force trim.

hcee.•11/19/23, 9:57 AM

The VPforce setting is meant for sims / modules that don't have ffb.
Check Rhino manual page 68 for which module-specific settings you should have in place

PPoor Yurik My workaround right now is to turn the spring dial to zero (dead stick with no e...

Reed•11/19/23, 2:13 PM

Check and make sure you don’t have any double binds. Especially vr hand controllers. This can cause this issue. Double check this now and dcs updates can cause it to happen as they bring back those controller settings for some reason.

Hhcee.- The VPforce setting is meant for sims / modules that don't have ffb. - Check R...

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 3:50 PM

Hm I thought as long as "Override Trim" isn't enabled this wouldn't be an issue. I will try this today.

RReed Check and make sure you don’t have any double binds. Especially vr hand controll...

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 3:51 PM

Interesting. I will definitely look thru my binds today.

PPoor Yurik Hm I thought as long as "Override Trim" isn't enabled this wouldn't be an issue....

Number481•11/19/23, 4:05 PM

For DCS, those settings won't take effect unless Override is enabled, as you say. The only things I can think if is if something is triggering the DCS "trim reset" binding when you release the force trim button. Also make sure you have no curves set in DCS. Curves and FFB do not get along.

NNumber481 For DCS, those settings won't take effect unless Override is enabled, as you say...

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:20 PM

Here's the thing -- the re-centering is to the newly set center. So it's not continually retrimming.

Number481•11/19/23, 4:24 PM

I dont understand. You push and hold the trim release, the spring forces go away. You move the stick, release the trim button, the forces come back centered at the new position. That is normal behavior.

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:27 PM

Imagine if you installed the center trim system from the black shark into a jet. That's how it acts. The center changes, but it constantly tries to return to that center instead of acting like a cyclic.

Number481•11/19/23, 4:31 PM

I guess I'm being thick and still dont understand. 'return to center', to me, means where the stick will settle whenyou let go.. that is the 'center of spring force'. Force trim, by its very nature, changes the center of the spring force to be wherever you want the trimmed position to be.

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:31 PM

So I trim, the center changes. I pitch forward and take my hand off the stick and it snaps back to that center, rather than using that center as the new point of reference but acting like a cyclic where it stays where I leave it

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:34 PM

Maybe I'm not understanding how things should work. Here's what I thought: a helo's cyclic felt like a dead stick in terms of angle. Trimming simply sets a new center reference point. The force I should feel is aerodynamic effects (shudder, resistance, etc) and things like gunfire rumble and landing touchdowns.

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:35 PM

I.e. no snap-to-center effect

Number481•11/19/23, 4:36 PM

Helicopters have a magnetic brake that holds the cyclic in a given position. This magnetic brake has springs with a a certain amount of range that you can fight against, but the cyclic will return to that position where the brake is holding it. If you want to move the resting (trimmed) position of the cyclic, you push and hold the force trim button, which disengages to magnetic brake and you are now free to move the cyclic wherever you want. When you release the button, the brake re-engages.

This is simulated in DCS by removing the spring force when you push and hold the trim button. When you release the button, it recalculates the new spring center point and re-applies the spring.

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:38 PM

Interesting

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:40 PM

Doing a big think right now. This sounds like I've just been having a total misunderstanding of helos now that I've translated from non-ffb to the Rhino. Pre-Rhino I bought a cm3 base to get "dead stick" because that's how I understood people explaining a cyclic's behavior.

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:42 PM

Now I wish the Mongoose stick's thumb hat was a button instead. Too easy to move the hat in an unintended way rather than triggering a click on it.

Number481•11/19/23, 4:43 PM

The cyclic will, indeed, 'stay where you put it'.. its just that in a real helo, in order to 'put it', you user the force trim button to set where the mag-brake is holding the cyclic.

In a UH-1, with the force trim switch off (the only heli I know where you can disable the system).. the cyclic will not "purposefully " stay where you put it. You don't take your hand off the cyclic with force-trim disabled in the UH-1

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:44 PM

Maybe I need to bind my trim to one of the hat directions, like right so I squeeze it into the stick. Hm. Will experiment.

Number481•11/19/23, 4:44 PM

The closest approximation you can get without FFB is a joystick base with a friction clutch.

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:45 PM

I get it now. Thank you so much for explaining it in context of how it works irl.

Number481•11/19/23, 4:45 PM

I don't know what grip you have, but the thumb switch is a common button for the trim release (I see you said now)

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:45 PM

I have this one: https://virpil-controls.us.com/vpc-mongoost-50cm2-grip.html

VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Grip

★ Cyrillic Button Labels
★ Based on Modern Russian Fighter Jet Controls
★ Material - Enhanced PU Plastic Construction
★ Wide Variety of Buttons, Triggers and Hats
★ Analogue Brake Lever

Due to the height of the grip, it is best suited for desk mounted/cockpit setups.

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:46 PM

Perfect in many ways for the Shark. Especially for the Shkval hat. Only thing I'd swap is the thumb hat for a single button.

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:46 PM

The hat clicks, but that's a little finicky at that position ergonomically imo.

Number481•11/19/23, 4:47 PM

The alpha is the same way.. I've bound depress, forward and right all to the trim-release before (if you don't need the other directions for some other function, like in the Apache)

Poor YurikOP•11/19/23, 4:48 PM

I own an Alpha too. Great stick, but the twist always comes loose for me over time.

Andrut•11/19/23, 5:23 PM

Hello guys,
Does anyone fly Mi-24 in DCS and have some good settings for Rhino? I can not find so goods settings for me. Maybe when I see another settings I will find something for me

Andrut•11/19/23, 5:25 PM

I use also TeleFFB but I think there are not so many effects for Mi-24, or I do something wrong

AAndrut Hello guys, Does anyone fly Mi-24 in DCS and have some good settings for Rhino?...

Number481•11/19/23, 5:39 PM

What isn't working how you want it? There isn't anything in the way of flight forces feedback in a helicopter cyclic. FFB is pretty much limited to force trim (see conversation directly above). FFB Force Trim is implemented natively in DCS. Just adjust the spring and dapmen forces in VPforce configurator to your liking. TelemFFB is only used to add haptic effects like engine/rotor rumble, gunfire, damage effect, etc. etc.

Andrut•11/19/23, 5:41 PM

Ok, so basic stetting is only damper and spring for heli, right? Or do you use another options with heli also?

Andrut•11/19/23, 5:42 PM

TelemFFB at this moment add effect only during damages or taxing, during shooting is nothing, engine also, I fly olny MI-24, maybe for Mi-24 is not implemented

Andrut•11/19/23, 5:42 PM

I found some settings for me, Spring around 15-20%, and damper for 70% but maybe someone has better setting, so I wanted to check it how someone else use available effects

AAndrut I found some settings for me, Spring around 15-20%, and damper for 70% but maybe...

Number481•11/19/23, 5:45 PM

For me, personally, I keep the spring at %100. It should be hard to move the cyclic unless you are holding down the force trim button. I keep damper around %20 just to give a little hydraulic feeling.. you dont want any high forces since you need to be able to make very microsopic adjustments.

Andrut•11/19/23, 5:45 PM

I will check it

Andrut•11/19/23, 5:45 PM

Thanks a lot

For some reason my Rhino is suddenly centering my stick in DCS when in helos. I've checked my settin

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