Hi, F14 stick behaves strangely. There is a force forward. Is this normal?
Hi, F14 stick behaves strangely. There is a force forward. Is this normal?
Isame for me, I think this is how they implemented the f14
PFFB + MFG?! Any more info on that I would love to get that setup, is it do-able now with the motor kits?
PIs it trim force you are feeling?
MMaybe you could get in contact with Milan to have him integrate the needed holes in the product from scratch?
He seems to be pretty open to modifications on his pedals, the V3 pedals having been modified to fix things based on the feedback he got from his clients.
He seems to be pretty open to modifications on his pedals, the V3 pedals having been modified to fix things based on the feedback he got from his clients.
UI don't know what it is. It moves the stick to end forward position and then you have to fight it. When you move the stick back you have to fight with it and when move past center that force decreases. I don't think the real stick behaves this way, it is dangerous.
MYeah, a couple folks have done it, but iirc, no one has posted schematics. The design of the crosswinds themselves lends nicely to conversion to FFB using a single motor
LF14 should behave very predictably. Its ffb implementation is great. You might need to invert the axis in dcs controls, ffb settings
DYour VPC pedals mod sound very interesting, could you posts a photo of it please ?
I used to have MFG pedals but I changed to the Virpil VPC ones because I find them better for helicopters and they fit on my DOF H6 motion platform better. I actual have both types of VPC pedals, the ones with toe brakes and also the simpler ones without.
I used to have MFG pedals but I changed to the Virpil VPC ones because I find them better for helicopters and they fit on my DOF H6 motion platform better. I actual have both types of VPC pedals, the ones with toe brakes and also the simpler ones without.
Fyou must be a dedicated FFB guy using that old Microsoft stick 
TTrim it
NI published my as built on GitHub. https://github.com/Number481/VirpilACE-VPForce-Mod
I’ve also posted some picks here and there. https://discord.com/channels/965234441511383080/972180323787997255/1120453484463005807
I’ve also posted some picks here and there. https://discord.com/channels/965234441511383080/972180323787997255/1120453484463005807
GitHub
DIY VPForce 86BLF-03 kit mod for the Virpil ACE rudder pedals - GitHub - Number481/VirpilACE-VPForce-Mod: DIY VPForce 86BLF-03 kit mod for the Virpil ACE rudder pedals
DInteresting. I am still using the old Logitech ones because I did not think any other pedal sets fit the pedal plate for the H6/P6.
BThe absolute worst case, you grab a piece of plywood and drill some holes to fit both your chosen pedals and your mount
RJust checking out what’s going on in here and I see more chat about MFG FFB mod… it’s like a Christmas miracle! Better start saving!
Better start saving!
PThat sounds very interesting. When is the kit expected to be available to order? Are you also thinking about such kits for the TM TPR or the VPC ACE, since these are very widely used?
DI used to be Fr4Ged, but I could never get xpForce to work properly with it, and now that I have my lovely Rhino it is in danger of being sold !
DThanks for the links and info.
My apologies for not spotting them before but I'm still blundering around in Discord, even though I've been following a number of specific interest groups on here for a year or so, I'm still not very adept with it.
My apologies for not spotting them before but I'm still blundering around in Discord, even though I've been following a number of specific interest groups on here for a year or so, I'm still not very adept with it.
VGreat...I am interested as well
Dwonder is someone knows whats going on here, i made some changes to my diy rhino ( new limiters ) and did the callibration and now both motor center are red, any idea what that means ?
D
PThx for sharing
DThanks again for the links and nice clear photos.
I've read through them and I think I'll have a crack at it myself
As I understand it so far, I just need to order a single motor kit with circuit board and then fix the motor vertically behind my VKB pedals. I already use them without the "spider" feet because I mounted the central box unit on a flat plywood plate, which makes it easier to attach to my DOF h6.
So if I bought the kit, plus a cutout switch, an adjusting pot, a USB 2.0 B socket, a drive belt, and a motor cog, then I just need to source a printed large gear wheel ?
I notice you specified the middle size single stepper motor kit, I guess because it's the best torque rating for pedals ?
Is there a waiting list for single motor kits ?
I've read through them and I think I'll have a crack at it myself
As I understand it so far, I just need to order a single motor kit with circuit board and then fix the motor vertically behind my VKB pedals. I already use them without the "spider" feet because I mounted the central box unit on a flat plywood plate, which makes it easier to attach to my DOF h6.
So if I bought the kit, plus a cutout switch, an adjusting pot, a USB 2.0 B socket, a drive belt, and a motor cog, then I just need to source a printed large gear wheel ?
I notice you specified the middle size single stepper motor kit, I guess because it's the best torque rating for pedals ?
Is there a waiting list for single motor kits ?
Dthx
AYou're welcome ^^
JNo waiting for the motor kits. As far as I remember. Had mine within a week
JUSB socket comes with it
JI’m looking at the H6 myself. Quite pricey but it looks absolutely incredible.
NHonestly, the primary reason I went with the 03 vs the 04 motor is that the 04 was backordered when I was ready to order and I don't like waiting. My published as-built design specifies the 03 because the longer motor would not fit without some modification to the design..
The reality is that even the 03 motor is capable of providing more than enough force for my tastes.
Looking at your setup, I think the challenge will be getting the motor mounted in a way such that the output shaft is inline with where the drive gear would attach to the pedal arms.
The reality is that even the 03 motor is capable of providing more than enough force for my tastes.
Looking at your setup, I think the challenge will be getting the motor mounted in a way such that the output shaft is inline with where the drive gear would attach to the pedal arms.
JI second what @_gunzablazin said about the 03. It’s MORE than enough.
JYou’ll know real quick if you’ve been skipping leg day.
DThanks for the confirmation. I'll check out the PDF drawings of each motor to see how they'd fit into my theortical layout. I think the advantage of the VKB pedals is when the spider spreaders are removed the main central box is quite small, so I should be able to raise it to the required height to line up the output pulley. Though I will be choosing the shortest motor possible to keep it as low as possible. I also use the H6 with fanatec car pedals, so I'll keep the pedal support plate at the existing height.
DThat's good to hear , a 12 month wait would seriously cramp my enthusiasm !
I've had DOF rigs for three years now, originally an H3 and now an H6, extensively modified.
They are great for car sims, but they have a problem with flight sims. The direct drive motors suffer from "cogging", because of the much more subtle pitch and roll movements.
The newer SFU gearboxes greatly improve the smoothness, but the jerking during what should be perfectly smooth angle changes is still an immersion breaker. They use simple 24v DC brush motors, so the default direct drive motors jerk around the commutator segments when making very (very) slow are partial revolutions.
There is a DIY solution though. A clever Guy on the Facebook DOF Builders group hit on the idea of swapping the direct drive motors for 4:1 planetary geared motors. So the motor shaft turns 4 times faster for the same degree of SFU "lift". I did the mod on my H6 and it is now beautifully smooth, even when the MsFS or xPlane autoplilot is making barely perceptible movements, (which previously jerked badly).
https://youtu.be/qOO9tOMFUSE
, a 12 month wait would seriously cramp my enthusiasm !I've had DOF rigs for three years now, originally an H3 and now an H6, extensively modified.
They are great for car sims, but they have a problem with flight sims. The direct drive motors suffer from "cogging", because of the much more subtle pitch and roll movements.
The newer SFU gearboxes greatly improve the smoothness, but the jerking during what should be perfectly smooth angle changes is still an immersion breaker. They use simple 24v DC brush motors, so the default direct drive motors jerk around the commutator segments when making very (very) slow are partial revolutions.
There is a DIY solution though. A clever Guy on the Facebook DOF Builders group hit on the idea of swapping the direct drive motors for 4:1 planetary geared motors. So the motor shaft turns 4 times faster for the same degree of SFU "lift". I did the mod on my H6 and it is now beautifully smooth, even when the MsFS or xPlane autoplilot is making barely perceptible movements, (which previously jerked badly).
https://youtu.be/qOO9tOMFUSE
YouTubePaul
Here's a video of my DOF Reality H6 motion platform after being modified with Planetary Geared Motors to eliminate the jerkiness during subtle changes in pitch and roll. This is caused by "cogging", where the motor steps from one commutator segment to the next when making partial revolutions. This spoils the immersion, especially in VR, becaus...
JI heard the SFU gearboxes got rid of that - obviously I wouldn't know but I did read about that
DIt's quite a controversial subject.
I managed to reduce it on my H3 by moving the pushrods to the innermost holes of the SFU operating levers. That reduced slightly the total angular range of pitch and roll, but it also effectively "down-geared" the movement, by altering the lever's pivot distance.
When I upgraded to the H6, that mod was no longer practical, because the principle is totally different. Instead of pivoting the seat on a fixed central UJ, the 6 DOF rigs have 6 motors and pushrods, so the rig "flies" by default at mid-height. It therefore juddered with very slow angle changes, because the ball and screw SFUs were lifting and dropping in short "jerks" as the brush motors (not steppers) went from cummutator segment to segment.
Most DOF platform users appear to use them for driving sims, and then there's no problem at all, because car movements are mush more abrupt anyway, compared to flight sims.
The company vehemently denies the problem, which is unfortunate, because in all other respects they are supplying a marvelous product at a relatively affordable price, and their sales and customer service is very good, despite being based in a war torn country.
I managed to reduce it on my H3 by moving the pushrods to the innermost holes of the SFU operating levers. That reduced slightly the total angular range of pitch and roll, but it also effectively "down-geared" the movement, by altering the lever's pivot distance.
When I upgraded to the H6, that mod was no longer practical, because the principle is totally different. Instead of pivoting the seat on a fixed central UJ, the 6 DOF rigs have 6 motors and pushrods, so the rig "flies" by default at mid-height. It therefore juddered with very slow angle changes, because the ball and screw SFUs were lifting and dropping in short "jerks" as the brush motors (not steppers) went from cummutator segment to segment.
Most DOF platform users appear to use them for driving sims, and then there's no problem at all, because car movements are mush more abrupt anyway, compared to flight sims.
The company vehemently denies the problem, which is unfortunate, because in all other respects they are supplying a marvelous product at a relatively affordable price, and their sales and customer service is very good, despite being based in a war torn country.
FWhat do you think would change that behaviour? Im thinking of building my own 6dof rig someday and would like to prevent something like cogging
DI upgraded my P6 with the SFU upgrade (total nightmare) and I still have the violent “jerking” motion when at the max throw distance. The rest of the movement is quite smooth, much smoother than prior to the SFU upgrade. I have read about the clogging mods, but have decided to catch my breath before I attempt another mod or update with the rig.
JI’m glad I’m reading about this now before dropping that kind of cash. Thanks!
DSo far the only way I have found to make my H6 cog-free is by changing the motors to the planetary geared ones.
It's a fairly straightforward conversion, but does require a certain level of engineering skill to adapt or create the new motor mounting flanges.
On the plus side, no electrical or software mods are required if the rig has external position sensors, rather than the newer rotary encoders. It's simply a matter of bolting the new motors in place of the originals and connecting the pos and neg wires. The adapters are needed because the planetary motors have different PCD mounting holes. New ones can be made from sheet metal or adapted from the old pre-SFU worm and roller gearbox flanges with a little bit of turning in a lathe. New flexible couplers are required as well, since the new motors have 12mm diameter shafts instead of the originals 11mm. (Though I did bore mine out instead in a lathe.)
Here's a youtube video showing the old and the new motors alongside each other on an H6. If you look at the silver shaft couplers, you can see the direct drive motor cogging when moving very slowly, while the planetary geared motor coupler turns smoothly, because the motor itself is spinning 4 times faster for the same SFU input shaft speed.
https://youtu.be/2UgRFU_gGGw
It's a fairly straightforward conversion, but does require a certain level of engineering skill to adapt or create the new motor mounting flanges.
On the plus side, no electrical or software mods are required if the rig has external position sensors, rather than the newer rotary encoders. It's simply a matter of bolting the new motors in place of the originals and connecting the pos and neg wires. The adapters are needed because the planetary motors have different PCD mounting holes. New ones can be made from sheet metal or adapted from the old pre-SFU worm and roller gearbox flanges with a little bit of turning in a lathe. New flexible couplers are required as well, since the new motors have 12mm diameter shafts instead of the originals 11mm. (Though I did bore mine out instead in a lathe.)
Here's a youtube video showing the old and the new motors alongside each other on an H6. If you look at the silver shaft couplers, you can see the direct drive motor cogging when moving very slowly, while the planetary geared motor coupler turns smoothly, because the motor itself is spinning 4 times faster for the same SFU input shaft speed.
https://youtu.be/2UgRFU_gGGw
YouTubePaul
The phenomenon of "cogging" occurs when a brush type DC motor turns very slowly or when giving partial revolutions. The electricity to the windings is connected via carbon brushes that touch a segmented commutator, so that as it rotates it connects to each coil in turn. There are therefore points at which the energy force "jumps" onto the next...
PI also intended to buy an H6 this year, but these very problems made me hesitate.
P
YouTubeMotionXP | 6DOF Simulators (formerly MySimKit)
Discord: https://discord.gg/t6wQfUehDr
Welcome to MotionXP YouTube Channel!
Discover the Ultimate 6 DOF Motion Experience – DIY Kits for:
Flying Simulators - DCS, FS2020, Aerofly, X-Plane, War Thunder, Star Wars Squadrons, and more.
Racing Simulators - Dirt Rally 2, Assetto Corsa, F1 20xx, Automobilista 2, Forza, and many others.
-------...
Welcome to MotionXP YouTube Channel!
Discover the Ultimate 6 DOF Motion Experience – DIY Kits for:
Flying Simulators - DCS, FS2020, Aerofly, X-Plane, War Thunder, Star Wars Squadrons, and more. Racing Simulators - Dirt Rally 2, Assetto Corsa, F1 20xx, Automobilista 2, Forza, and many others.-------...
PIt's a completely different movement system but it certainly doesn't have that problem, and above all it costs almost the same as a P6
Pand most important of all, a nice Rhino and the new FFB pedal kit that we will soon have the honor of buying from Walmis
FI'm still not sure what the best mechanism is for 6dof flight cause apparently large movements are great but speed is more important in vr
FAt least it's gonna take a while before I build mine but it honestly hasn't really become clear for me yet
DI've been into motion platforms for three years now.
I currently have the much modified H6 and previously the H3.
I also have a Yaw1, the small hemispherical ball.
I've never aspired to a "proper" motion platform with true linear actuators because of the greater cost, and possibly the larger space needed to accomodate them.
The one that Piola linked to looks really good, but I wonder what the avialability is like.
I'd considered the Yaw2, which uses the same principle of movement as my Yaw1, not using actuators but simply "rolling" the curved under surfaces. They have had severe problems meeting demand though, and going by the comments from backers, many have been waiting years for their delivery.
My H6 has been through innumerable transformations, (easily achieved, thanks to the very adaptable bolt-together construction). I now have it working really well with flight sims, but I'd be very cautious in recommending it to anyone with minimal engineering skills.
The Yaw1 is a real blast. Incredible on roller coasters and such, as it can rotate 360 degrees (and more if used via wifi !) It's real forte is VR, with minimal controls, just a yoke and lighweight pedals. I tried to incorpoarte it into my triple screen multi control setup, but it's too "agile", (which is why it's incredible in VR, in the centre of a romm with plenty of room to swing and tilt.
I currently have the much modified H6 and previously the H3.
I also have a Yaw1, the small hemispherical ball.
I've never aspired to a "proper" motion platform with true linear actuators because of the greater cost, and possibly the larger space needed to accomodate them.
The one that Piola linked to looks really good, but I wonder what the avialability is like.
I'd considered the Yaw2, which uses the same principle of movement as my Yaw1, not using actuators but simply "rolling" the curved under surfaces. They have had severe problems meeting demand though, and going by the comments from backers, many have been waiting years for their delivery.
My H6 has been through innumerable transformations, (easily achieved, thanks to the very adaptable bolt-together construction). I now have it working really well with flight sims, but I'd be very cautious in recommending it to anyone with minimal engineering skills.
The Yaw1 is a real blast. Incredible on roller coasters and such, as it can rotate 360 degrees (and more if used via wifi !) It's real forte is VR, with minimal controls, just a yoke and lighweight pedals. I tried to incorpoarte it into my triple screen multi control setup, but it's too "agile", (which is why it's incredible in VR, in the centre of a romm with plenty of room to swing and tilt.
PAh this is the first Yaw
FI've been thinking of waiting till I finish college to use engineering job connections to build something similar to yaw2 with linear actuators for translating motion haha
DHow is Rhino compared to msffb2?
Curently using msffb2 and it works great in dcs, il2 even ear thunder fixed ffb. Microsoft flight sim works for me with airforce player up but web page for that is no longer active.
I am soon on the list to get my rhino that I will be mounting to my Warthog stick. Is short throw neeed if I use 7 cm extension for warthog?
Curently using msffb2 and it works great in dcs, il2 even ear thunder fixed ffb. Microsoft flight sim works for me with airforce player up but web page for that is no longer active.
I am soon on the list to get my rhino that I will be mounting to my Warthog stick. Is short throw neeed if I use 7 cm extension for warthog?
DAnother question does anyone have solution to get FFB in star citizen?