I heard the SFU gearboxes got rid of that - obviously I wouldn't know but I did read about that
I heard the SFU gearboxes got rid of that - obviously I wouldn't know but I did read about that
DIt's quite a controversial subject.
I managed to reduce it on my H3 by moving the pushrods to the innermost holes of the SFU operating levers. That reduced slightly the total angular range of pitch and roll, but it also effectively "down-geared" the movement, by altering the lever's pivot distance.
When I upgraded to the H6, that mod was no longer practical, because the principle is totally different. Instead of pivoting the seat on a fixed central UJ, the 6 DOF rigs have 6 motors and pushrods, so the rig "flies" by default at mid-height. It therefore juddered with very slow angle changes, because the ball and screw SFUs were lifting and dropping in short "jerks" as the brush motors (not steppers) went from cummutator segment to segment.
Most DOF platform users appear to use them for driving sims, and then there's no problem at all, because car movements are mush more abrupt anyway, compared to flight sims.
The company vehemently denies the problem, which is unfortunate, because in all other respects they are supplying a marvelous product at a relatively affordable price, and their sales and customer service is very good, despite being based in a war torn country.
I managed to reduce it on my H3 by moving the pushrods to the innermost holes of the SFU operating levers. That reduced slightly the total angular range of pitch and roll, but it also effectively "down-geared" the movement, by altering the lever's pivot distance.
When I upgraded to the H6, that mod was no longer practical, because the principle is totally different. Instead of pivoting the seat on a fixed central UJ, the 6 DOF rigs have 6 motors and pushrods, so the rig "flies" by default at mid-height. It therefore juddered with very slow angle changes, because the ball and screw SFUs were lifting and dropping in short "jerks" as the brush motors (not steppers) went from cummutator segment to segment.
Most DOF platform users appear to use them for driving sims, and then there's no problem at all, because car movements are mush more abrupt anyway, compared to flight sims.
The company vehemently denies the problem, which is unfortunate, because in all other respects they are supplying a marvelous product at a relatively affordable price, and their sales and customer service is very good, despite being based in a war torn country.
FWhat do you think would change that behaviour? Im thinking of building my own 6dof rig someday and would like to prevent something like cogging
DI upgraded my P6 with the SFU upgrade (total nightmare) and I still have the violent “jerking” motion when at the max throw distance. The rest of the movement is quite smooth, much smoother than prior to the SFU upgrade. I have read about the clogging mods, but have decided to catch my breath before I attempt another mod or update with the rig.
JI’m glad I’m reading about this now before dropping that kind of cash. Thanks!
DSo far the only way I have found to make my H6 cog-free is by changing the motors to the planetary geared ones.
It's a fairly straightforward conversion, but does require a certain level of engineering skill to adapt or create the new motor mounting flanges.
On the plus side, no electrical or software mods are required if the rig has external position sensors, rather than the newer rotary encoders. It's simply a matter of bolting the new motors in place of the originals and connecting the pos and neg wires. The adapters are needed because the planetary motors have different PCD mounting holes. New ones can be made from sheet metal or adapted from the old pre-SFU worm and roller gearbox flanges with a little bit of turning in a lathe. New flexible couplers are required as well, since the new motors have 12mm diameter shafts instead of the originals 11mm. (Though I did bore mine out instead in a lathe.)
Here's a youtube video showing the old and the new motors alongside each other on an H6. If you look at the silver shaft couplers, you can see the direct drive motor cogging when moving very slowly, while the planetary geared motor coupler turns smoothly, because the motor itself is spinning 4 times faster for the same SFU input shaft speed.
https://youtu.be/2UgRFU_gGGw
It's a fairly straightforward conversion, but does require a certain level of engineering skill to adapt or create the new motor mounting flanges.
On the plus side, no electrical or software mods are required if the rig has external position sensors, rather than the newer rotary encoders. It's simply a matter of bolting the new motors in place of the originals and connecting the pos and neg wires. The adapters are needed because the planetary motors have different PCD mounting holes. New ones can be made from sheet metal or adapted from the old pre-SFU worm and roller gearbox flanges with a little bit of turning in a lathe. New flexible couplers are required as well, since the new motors have 12mm diameter shafts instead of the originals 11mm. (Though I did bore mine out instead in a lathe.)
Here's a youtube video showing the old and the new motors alongside each other on an H6. If you look at the silver shaft couplers, you can see the direct drive motor cogging when moving very slowly, while the planetary geared motor coupler turns smoothly, because the motor itself is spinning 4 times faster for the same SFU input shaft speed.
https://youtu.be/2UgRFU_gGGw
YouTubePaul
The phenomenon of "cogging" occurs when a brush type DC motor turns very slowly or when giving partial revolutions. The electricity to the windings is connected via carbon brushes that touch a segmented commutator, so that as it rotates it connects to each coil in turn. There are therefore points at which the energy force "jumps" onto the next...
PI also intended to buy an H6 this year, but these very problems made me hesitate.
P
YouTubeMotionXP | 6DOF Simulators (formerly MySimKit)
Discord: https://discord.gg/t6wQfUehDr
Welcome to MotionXP YouTube Channel!
Discover the Ultimate 6 DOF Motion Experience – DIY Kits for:
Flying Simulators - DCS, FS2020, Aerofly, X-Plane, War Thunder, Star Wars Squadrons, and more.
Racing Simulators - Dirt Rally 2, Assetto Corsa, F1 20xx, Automobilista 2, Forza, and many others.
-------...
Welcome to MotionXP YouTube Channel!
Discover the Ultimate 6 DOF Motion Experience – DIY Kits for:
Flying Simulators - DCS, FS2020, Aerofly, X-Plane, War Thunder, Star Wars Squadrons, and more. Racing Simulators - Dirt Rally 2, Assetto Corsa, F1 20xx, Automobilista 2, Forza, and many others.-------...
PIt's a completely different movement system but it certainly doesn't have that problem, and above all it costs almost the same as a P6
Pand most important of all, a nice Rhino and the new FFB pedal kit that we will soon have the honor of buying from Walmis
FI'm still not sure what the best mechanism is for 6dof flight cause apparently large movements are great but speed is more important in vr
FAt least it's gonna take a while before I build mine but it honestly hasn't really become clear for me yet
DI've been into motion platforms for three years now.
I currently have the much modified H6 and previously the H3.
I also have a Yaw1, the small hemispherical ball.
I've never aspired to a "proper" motion platform with true linear actuators because of the greater cost, and possibly the larger space needed to accomodate them.
The one that Piola linked to looks really good, but I wonder what the avialability is like.
I'd considered the Yaw2, which uses the same principle of movement as my Yaw1, not using actuators but simply "rolling" the curved under surfaces. They have had severe problems meeting demand though, and going by the comments from backers, many have been waiting years for their delivery.
My H6 has been through innumerable transformations, (easily achieved, thanks to the very adaptable bolt-together construction). I now have it working really well with flight sims, but I'd be very cautious in recommending it to anyone with minimal engineering skills.
The Yaw1 is a real blast. Incredible on roller coasters and such, as it can rotate 360 degrees (and more if used via wifi !) It's real forte is VR, with minimal controls, just a yoke and lighweight pedals. I tried to incorpoarte it into my triple screen multi control setup, but it's too "agile", (which is why it's incredible in VR, in the centre of a romm with plenty of room to swing and tilt.
I currently have the much modified H6 and previously the H3.
I also have a Yaw1, the small hemispherical ball.
I've never aspired to a "proper" motion platform with true linear actuators because of the greater cost, and possibly the larger space needed to accomodate them.
The one that Piola linked to looks really good, but I wonder what the avialability is like.
I'd considered the Yaw2, which uses the same principle of movement as my Yaw1, not using actuators but simply "rolling" the curved under surfaces. They have had severe problems meeting demand though, and going by the comments from backers, many have been waiting years for their delivery.
My H6 has been through innumerable transformations, (easily achieved, thanks to the very adaptable bolt-together construction). I now have it working really well with flight sims, but I'd be very cautious in recommending it to anyone with minimal engineering skills.
The Yaw1 is a real blast. Incredible on roller coasters and such, as it can rotate 360 degrees (and more if used via wifi !) It's real forte is VR, with minimal controls, just a yoke and lighweight pedals. I tried to incorpoarte it into my triple screen multi control setup, but it's too "agile", (which is why it's incredible in VR, in the centre of a romm with plenty of room to swing and tilt.
PAh this is the first Yaw
FI've been thinking of waiting till I finish college to use engineering job connections to build something similar to yaw2 with linear actuators for translating motion haha
DHow is Rhino compared to msffb2?
Curently using msffb2 and it works great in dcs, il2 even ear thunder fixed ffb. Microsoft flight sim works for me with airforce player up but web page for that is no longer active.
I am soon on the list to get my rhino that I will be mounting to my Warthog stick. Is short throw neeed if I use 7 cm extension for warthog?
Curently using msffb2 and it works great in dcs, il2 even ear thunder fixed ffb. Microsoft flight sim works for me with airforce player up but web page for that is no longer active.
I am soon on the list to get my rhino that I will be mounting to my Warthog stick. Is short throw neeed if I use 7 cm extension for warthog?
DAnother question does anyone have solution to get FFB in star citizen?
DNot even in the same league
BCan't wait, seems mine is in shipping limbo ATM.
TStar citizen currently has no telemetry output, so the Rhino will not have any FFB but you can still use it like a spring joystick. The electronics serve as an alternative to high end bases for adjustability in the feel for damping, cams, friction, etc.
JI’m excited for you. Believe it or not, because of your avi, I remember when you first joined.
BPardon but avi?
Only thing that reminds me of is the ol audio/video container format
Only thing that reminds me of is the ol audio/video container format
JAvatar, your cat!
BAaah
BHey there, merry Xmas to you all
!
Anyone here (preferably DE/EU) fancy to jump the line on a brand new and unused rhino base + mounting plate?
Due to unforeseen circumstances I won't be able to use it any time soon, but it's already in transit (since thursday, so I expect it'll probably arrive sometime next week).
If you're interested, just pm me...
!Anyone here (preferably DE/EU) fancy to jump the line on a brand new and unused rhino base + mounting plate?
Due to unforeseen circumstances I won't be able to use it any time soon, but it's already in transit (since thursday, so I expect it'll probably arrive sometime next week).
If you're interested, just pm me...
Rintrested
J6 dof would be a dream
BI would personally settle for a diy throttle at this point
BOr maybe an ffb collective
FTime to take one apart
JThis is my next goal
BNot sure if I'd expect more from it than simply holding position, which be doable with clutches but could be "sticky"
JI believe it will also shake
WWould be fun during hydraulic failure!
PI'm already on it to order a VPC ACE
. Before I press the trigger, what effects are supported by the Sims for Rudder Pedals? However, force trim in DCS would be enough for me.
. Before I press the trigger, what effects are supported by the Sims for Rudder Pedals? However, force trim in DCS would be enough for me.DNicely put "Not even in the same league".... 
I've been using my sidewinder FF for many years now and it used to be really good, but despite having the paid versions of xpForce for FS2020 and XPlane, I've never been able to get it to work with either, it just jerks forward in one second pulses. I tried emailing the author, but never got any replies.
The Rhino however, blew my socks off when I first used it !
No comparison really. It just feels like a real plane, pulling back on the elevators while sitting on the runway, and feeling the effort reduce as you reve the engine and increase the airflow over them.
I've been using my sidewinder FF for many years now and it used to be really good, but despite having the paid versions of xpForce for FS2020 and XPlane, I've never been able to get it to work with either, it just jerks forward in one second pulses. I tried emailing the author, but never got any replies.
The Rhino however, blew my socks off when I first used it !
No comparison really. It just feels like a real plane, pulling back on the elevators while sitting on the runway, and feeling the effort reduce as you reve the engine and increase the airflow over them.
MYou will love it, best piece of kit you can buy, end of!
PThx Number481
! Stupid question. Does Helicopter even have a Force Trim for the rudder, like the Cyclic Stick?
! Stupid question. Does Helicopter even have a Force Trim for the rudder, like the Cyclic Stick?PYes, they obviously have: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/296561-is-there-rudder-trim-on-the-real-apache/
ED Forums
The Apache is the first module where the "Rudder trimmer" option is more then a checkbox in special options. I wondered if the Rudder in the real chopper is also trimmed to a new center position when using the Force Trim Release button?
Ffirst of all there is no rudder in a helo.
certain helos have pedal trim. certainly the more modern ones.
in DCS most of the helos do have pedal trim.
certain helos have pedal trim. certainly the more modern ones.
in DCS most of the helos do have pedal trim.
PTrue. Thanks for the correction
.
.
NVery few helicopters do. Unfortunately in DCS the “FFB” settings for the pedal trimmers does not behave properly when enabled. Why they even have the setting, IDK since DCS doesn’t even support FFB pedals. But…if it behaved properly, it might be possible to emulate moving pedals with autopilot.
PThanks! Good to know. A force trim function that workes properly in DCS with a helicopter would have been the most important reason to invest the money and work in a rudder mod for me. You saved me money and time!
Nthe reality of it is though, that once the pedals automatically switch between spring and no-spring mode.. you don't really need force trim for the pedals. No, the pedals won't move with autopilot, and no, they won't move with pedal trim input, but they stay where you put them.
Jump into a FW aircraft though, and they are back to having springs..
But if you only fly helos and have a damper mod on your pedals.. you won't gain much today by moving to FFB pedals (even though the dampening is superior to a motorcycle sterring damper)
Jump into a FW aircraft though, and they are back to having springs..
But if you only fly helos and have a damper mod on your pedals.. you won't gain much today by moving to FFB pedals (even though the dampening is superior to a motorcycle sterring damper)
PHm, those are a few good arguments for FFB rudder pedals. This makes me thinking again
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AFor me just the feel in general and excellent damping specifically are reasons enough to have ffb on everything
Athen again I would appreciate a throttle that starts to creep forward whenever my own courage starts to fail
PThe main pulley, the gear arm / gear mounting plate and, as you have already described, the throw limiter are probably the elements from 3D printing with the highest load. What material, process and filling level did you use to have this made?
NI printed everything with PLA+, 4 walls, %40 infill.
PThank you for the lightning-fast reply!