wdym take to user directly?

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 5:53 PM

Could anyone explain why tiered caching works with S3 but not with R2? It’s perplexing that to enable tiered caching on Cloudflare with R2, one must resort to using a third-party proxy.

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 5:55 PM

How does it understand where is my s3 or proxy origin

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 5:57 PM

But why origin location should affect caching. Ordinary caching works, the issue is tiered cache only

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 5:58 PM

Simple haproxy out of cloudflare solves the issue, it looks really strange

Original message was deleted

Oleg Isonen•2/18/24, 5:59 PM

What's the right solution for serving static assets over workers? Where are they supposed to be stored to get CDN-like speeds?

bunOP•2/18/24, 6:01 PM

why is tiered cache even disabled by default ? and what does it being disabled even mean ? does that mean its not cached globally but only in the main datacenter where r2 is at ?

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 6:03 PM

Also Im talking about tiered cache but we have enterprise account, same issue for cache reserve with tiered regional caching etc.

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 6:05 PM

I know, just can’t get the limitation why there is no cloudflare only way to have regional cache for r2 assets without external services

Original message was deleted

bunOP•2/18/24, 6:10 PM

how does that increase latency ? if lower tiers need to contact an upper tier thats probably closer than the origin shouldn't that reduce the latency ?

Oleg Isonen•2/18/24, 6:13 PM

@Matt I feel like people are guessing here about what's going on with tiered cache and R2 over workers, maybe you can help us figure this out

OOleg Isonen @Matt I feel like people are guessing here about what's going on with tiered cac...

kian•2/18/24, 6:15 PM

Workers & R2 custom domains all have the same non-Tiered Caching setup, Leo is correct

Unsmart•2/18/24, 6:19 PM

(Also I would refrain from randomly pinging employees here if you want an answer from Cloudflare you can contact support)

OOleg Isonen @Matt I feel like people are guessing here about what's going on with tiered cac...

Erisa•2/18/24, 6:20 PM

Please don't ping staff for questions like this. What Leo said is correct, currently R2 and Tiered Cache are incompatible. This is documented here: https://developers.cloudflare.com/cache/how-to/tiered-cache/#availability

Tiered Cache currently is not compatible with responses from R2. These responses will act as if Tiered Cache is not configured.

IIvan Starkov Also Im talking about tiered cache but we have enterprise account, same issue fo...

Erisa•2/18/24, 6:22 PM

Cache Reserve with R2 data would make no difference since Cache Reserve has the same pricing as R2 and stores your data in R2 behind the scenes.
Since you have an Enterprise account you can talk to Support for specific issues and with your account team if you have any feature requests or questions about product implementations for your use-case.

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 6:28 PM

The issue is not price but this -

Regional Tiered Cache provides an additional layer of caching for Enterprise customers who have a global traffic footprint and want to serve content faster by avoiding network latency when there is a cache MISS in a lower-tier, resulting in an upper-tier fetch in a data center located far away. We just want to serve content faster from r2, so It would make difference if it work

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 6:29 PM

And from what I see it work with external resources, but not with R2. Its normal question - why

Unsmart•2/18/24, 6:29 PM

Put in a feature request for tiered cache on R2 with your account team. The more requests especially from enterprise customers the more likely it will be prioritized

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 6:30 PM

Yep Ill do.

Unsmart•2/18/24, 6:31 PM

The answer as to why is workers. Workers are a global origin and cant work with tiered cache at the moment because it doesnt know what to do.

IIvan Starkov The issue is not price but this - Regional Tiered Cache provides an additional...

Erisa•2/18/24, 6:34 PM

Tiered Cache relies on information about the origin server which currently isn't available in this case because Cloudflare's anycast IP is the origin server. It's a limitation that I'm sure will be worked out in time, and the best way for you to expedite that is to put in a feature request so the team are aware that your company is waiting for this to be addressed.
I definitely feel the pain here as Tiered Cache is a valuable tool for optimising the benefits from cache, so I also hope it can be sorted out soon

Oleg Isonen•2/18/24, 6:39 PM

@Erisa | Support Engineer thank you for your feedback, please tell us how to serve static assets (css/js) from R2 via worker in a way that is fast. What's the official solution here?

We discovered that https://webstudio.is/ is fast on lighthouse and COMPLETELY fails core web vitals specifically because static assets globally are slow (the way we currently serve them), up to 500ms latency

https://pagespeed.web.dev/analysis/https-webstudio-is/pwezpxo8tn

Webstudio

Open visual development for the open web

Similar to Webflow, Webstudio visually translates CSS without obscuring it, giving designers superpowers that were exclusive to developers in the past.

OOleg Isonen @Erisa | Support Engineer thank you for your feedback, please tell us how to ser...

Erisa•2/18/24, 6:47 PM

"is fast" is subjective and hard to make recommendations for, there are many things that can be optimised for that fall outside the control of R2 (e.g. not loading so much JS/CSS, optimizing execution of scripts, all things pointed out on that page)

In terms of serving files from R2, the fastest method is to use the CDN cache either by Custom Domain or by Worker with Cache API: https://developers.cloudflare.com/r2/examples/cache-api/
Yes this will not be as efficient as an external origin with Tiered Cache, however it is the best available with R2 at the moment due to the aforementioned limitations. If the cache is setup fully for all files, the speed will depend on whether the resource is cached in the local datacenter that the user is hitting. The more traffic you get, the faster the site becomes when it relies on cache. Increasing the cache TTL will keep those caches around for longer but increase time to revalidate when you push new updates.

If you are hosting smaller assets you could potentially consider KV or host the whole website on Cloudflare Pages which should be better optimised for web assets. Pages comes with intelligent invalidation of assets when you make a new deploy and has its own internal caching system to keep sites as fast as possible without having a lag to deploy.

There is a guide on choosing a storage product here: https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/platform/storage-options/

EErisa "is fast" is subjective and hard to make recommendations for, there are many thi...

Oleg Isonen•2/18/24, 6:47 PM

I am specifically talking about latency. Globally its currrently up to 500ms waiting for response from the worker that is trying to get the asset from R2.

Erisa•2/18/24, 6:48 PM

Latency from where? For a cache miss or a cache hit? And where is the bucket stored relative to this?

Erisa•2/18/24, 6:48 PM

The page you linked doesn't indicate which parts are waiting 500ms on R2 and when I access the site myself all the assets are HITs and load quickly

Erisa•2/18/24, 6:49 PM

Though I notice the HTML for / is not being cached, if this is not dynamic then you may consider adding rules or code to cache HTML as well

Bbun wdym take to user directly?

pavan5936•2/18/24, 6:50 PM

i meanI want to say that the people with this link may get response so they have saved this link directly in database.

EErisa Though I notice the HTML for / is not being cached, if this is not dynamic then ...

Oleg Isonen•2/18/24, 6:52 PM

document is potentially dynamic
check out for example this css resource from different edges, the once close to R2 will be fast, others terrible https://webstudio.is/build/_assets/index-6JJ5GLFW.css

EErisa "is fast" is subjective and hard to make recommendations for, there are many thi...

bunOP•2/18/24, 6:52 PM

i dont get the idea of revalidating assets when they are going to be different on each deployment anwyay ?

OOleg Isonen - document is potentially dynamic - check out for example this css resource from...

bunOP•2/18/24, 6:54 PM

this is weird ? my browser doesnt cache the asset even though

Cache-Control

Cache-Control

headers are present

OOleg Isonen - document is potentially dynamic - check out for example this css resource from...

Erisa•2/18/24, 6:55 PM

What is the location for that bucket? And as I mentioned it will depend whether the asset is cached or not. When I access it from the UK I get a HIT and it loads in between 40 and 50 ms.
Is there a reason you are deploying these assets to R2 instead of a product designed for website hosting like Pages?

Bbun i dont get the idea of revalidating assets when they are going to be different o...

Erisa•2/18/24, 6:55 PM

What setup specifically are you referring to?

bunOP•2/18/24, 6:55 PM

his provided css url

EErisa What is the location for that bucket? And as I mentioned it will depend whether ...

Oleg Isonen•2/18/24, 6:55 PM

Western Europe (WEUR)

Bbun his provided css url

Erisa•2/18/24, 6:56 PM

What does revalidating have to do with that?

Original message was deleted

bunOP•2/18/24, 6:56 PM

yeah

EErisa What is the location for that bucket? And as I mentioned it will depend whether ...

Oleg Isonen•2/18/24, 6:56 PM

yes there is a reason, we are a SaaS, designed to host milions of sites. consider us ourselves a cloudflare pages.

OOleg Isonen Western Europe (WEUR)

Erisa•2/18/24, 6:57 PM

Testing it from the other side of the world is going to be slow unless cached, this is expected behaviour due to the distance and R2 only storing in a single region currently + not supporting Tiered Cache. The more an asset is requested the more likely it is to be in cache and serve quick.

Or are you seeing slow requests for

cf-cache-status: HIT

cf-cache-status: HIT

? Because that's a whole other question.

EErisa What is the location for that bucket? And as I mentioned it will depend whether ...

Oleg Isonen•2/18/24, 6:57 PM

Western Europe (WEUR) explains your fast response, its fast from germany too, but globally it's slow, massively, up to 500ms

Unsmart•2/18/24, 6:58 PM

63ms in Texas for me

EErisa Testing it from the other side of the world is going to be slow unless cached, t...

Oleg Isonen•2/18/24, 6:59 PM

the working assumption here is that we simply don't get the cache hit and fetching from origin across half planet, and I am genially at a loss how this is not something that has been long figured out at cloudflare

EErisa What does revalidating have to do with that? 🤔

bunOP•2/18/24, 7:00 PM

oh i thought you asked about something else.

i was refering to what you said:

Increasing the cache TTL will keep those caches around for longer but increase time to revalidate when you push new updates.

why would it increase time to revalidate if asset (JS/CSS) paths are going to be changed anyway as the name (paths) of those files changes everytime the project is bundled. assuming the index.html containing those asset paths remains dynamic (not cached)

Original message was deleted

Oleg Isonen•2/18/24, 7:01 PM

that's not what I am trying to figure out

Bbun oh i thought you asked about something else. i was refering to what you said: >...

Erisa•2/18/24, 7:01 PM

It won't. If you change the names of the assets then that's perfect. The TTL consideration is one to make mainly when trying to cache HTML pages or assets that don't change filename.

Original message was deleted

bunOP•2/18/24, 7:03 PM

its super weird. only firefox seems to cache out of chrome and safari

Oleg Isonen•2/18/24, 7:04 PM

@Erisa | Support Engineer if that helps here is what the worker logic looks like that serves that css file, see the /build/ branch

https://gist.github.com/kof/914c593049325eda72b25ad392737647

Gist

dynamic dispatcher

dynamic dispatcher. GitHub Gist: instantly share code, notes, and snippets.