Cloudflare Developers•2y ago

I am saying we can't, its not a toy project, we need R2, otherwise we have to migrate to S3 all stat

I am saying we can't, its not a toy project, we need R2, otherwise we have to migrate to S3 all static ressources

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 7:37 PM

right, I honestly love CF, politics here play a role, and I would hate my guts for going to AWS

OOleg Isonen to the document, and we are not discussing that, we need that test to the css re...

bun•2/18/24, 7:38 PM

the results i showed earlier were for that css.

the results for the document itself are 500-1000 ms

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 7:38 PM

I am rooting for CF to succeed and I just can't wrap my head around the fact that this is such a simple issue that can't be fixed within CF ecosystem

Erisa•2/18/24, 7:40 PM

To my knowledge Tiered Cache (at least Smart tiered) still won't work since the origin is still an anycast Cloudflare IP

Bbun the results i showed earlier were for that css. the results for the document it...

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 7:41 PM

if document is 500-1000ms slow globally, then core web vitals are also f...d even if all static is perfect

OOleg Isonen if document is 500-1000ms slow globally, then core web vitals are also f...d eve...

bun•2/18/24, 7:41 PM

thats true

bun•2/18/24, 7:42 PM

maybe put document files in KV, and every other asset can be served from R2

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Erisa•2/18/24, 7:42 PM

The HTML document in question isnt even cached

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Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 7:42 PM

so using a worker as a proxy

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Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 7:43 PM

would be amazing if that works really well, but also

Bbun the results i showed earlier were for that css. the results for the document it...

Erisa•2/18/24, 7:43 PM

What testing tool is that?

bun•2/18/24, 7:43 PM

https://www.jsdelivr.com/globalping

bun•2/18/24, 7:43 PM

although it doesnt ping, it actually makes a request and downloads the resource. displaying vitals for each of those

Erisa•2/18/24, 7:44 PM

Well it does whatever you tell it to

Erisa•2/18/24, 7:44 PM

I suspect it may be prohibitively expensive

Erisa•2/18/24, 7:45 PM

Ah, not bad

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Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 7:47 PM

Tried, doesnt work if domains are on single account, gonna try with different accounts

Unsmart•2/18/24, 7:48 PM

The annoying part of trying to do tiered cache on your own with DOs would be mapping all the colos to what location it should load a DO from

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Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 7:50 PM

Yep tiered, just poking around, sometimes somethings are working just with different accounts etc.

IIvan Starkov Yep tiered, just poking around, sometimes somethings are working just with diffe...

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 7:51 PM

So we should create a separate CF account to create a proxy that will then let our main account use tiered cache

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 7:51 PM

Not so hard

bun•2/18/24, 7:51 PM

can anyone explain wtf is tiered cache? ive read the documentation and it kind of makes sense, but i dont get what is this whole discussion is about? how is another CF account or a proxy going to help with anything

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 7:52 PM

It does work only with data from your origin

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 7:52 PM

It doesnt work with r2

Bbun can anyone explain wtf is tiered cache? ive read the documentation and it kind o...

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 7:53 PM

the way I understand it it contains multiple different strategies on how to cache the data close to the edge

Ivan Starkov•2/18/24, 7:53 PM

With proxy you can put r2 on your origin

Erisa•2/18/24, 7:57 PM

One messy but workable solution could be to shard data between multiple R2 buckets with different region hints and then route each uncached request to the closest bucket. Only issue would be multiplying your storage costs and increased complexity

bun•2/18/24, 7:58 PM

are there no plans of adding tiered caching for R2 ?

Erisa•2/18/24, 7:58 PM

There are plans

Erisa•2/18/24, 7:58 PM

It is a current limitation, not a permanent one

EErisa One messy but workable solution could be to shard data between multiple R2 bucke...

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 7:59 PM

yeah this is something we also considered with @istarkov I wonder how bad this solution really is

OOleg Isonen yeah this is something we also considered with @istarkov I wonder how bad this s...

Erisa•2/18/24, 7:59 PM

I can tell you I've seen customers implement it before and while the implementation is a bit messy they generally are pleased with the end result

Erisa•2/18/24, 7:59 PM

Hopefully in future that particular limitation with Tiered Cache can be sorted out for good

the R2 team are aware of these shortcomings and working on solutions, if you have an Enterprise account I strongly recommend reaching out and getting it filed as a feature request to speed that up. If not, hang tight

EErisa I can tell you I've seen customers implement it before and while the implementat...

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 8:00 PM

did they choose 2 regions or more?

Erisa•2/18/24, 8:00 PM

Even just 2 (usually EU and US) is enough to see a benefit, but if you have global traffic I'd consider adding an APAC region as well

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Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 8:00 PM

R2 - "your gateway to becoming devops"

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Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 8:02 PM

devops is the reason you go to cf lol

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 8:02 PM

otherwise you would be doing k8s on hetzner

Erisa•2/18/24, 8:03 PM

Its not an ideal position to be in but I think I would rather write a messy worker than do everything through k8s

Erisa•2/18/24, 8:03 PM

There are several improvements that we need to make for sure and the teams are aware of that

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 8:07 PM

can we make sure they are not just aware, but "painfully aware" ? you know the difference is "someone wants this" vs "this is f..d up for anyone wanting to use R2 for anything serious

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 8:08 PM

who is the manager of that effort, I would love to chat with them

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Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 8:08 PM

right its all just someone else's computer, not a cloud

OOleg Isonen can we make sure they are not just aware, but "painfully aware" ? you know the d...

Erisa•2/18/24, 8:09 PM

If you have an Enterprise contract then you can make them painfully aware by addressing it through your CSM

EErisa If you have an Enterprise contract then you can make them painfully aware by add...

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 8:10 PM

yes I just want to know the manager who is interested in solving this, before I go over customer support who will have the same discussion with me we just had

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Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 8:11 PM

we are an ambitious startup with no money at the moment, so this is why I love cloudflare, it lets us get off the ground

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Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 8:12 PM

I would love to connect a manager and @Erisa | Support Engineer so @Erisa | Support Engineer can give them the context, because all of this above is insane to translate in a short form

OOleg Isonen yes I just want to know the manager who is interested in solving this, before I ...

Erisa•2/18/24, 8:12 PM

Your CSM would be separate to Support and should be contacted directly about this so they can follow up internally.
But also, I work in Support

I'm "off-duty" at the moment but if you get in touch in Monday working hours then I can see what I can do for you

EErisa Your CSM would be separate to Support and should be contacted directly about thi...

Oleg IsonenOP•2/18/24, 8:13 PM

you are amazing for having this conversation on sunday, thank you

Erisa•2/18/24, 8:15 PM

Maybe I just have nothing better to do

I am saying we can't, its not a toy project, we need R2, otherwise we have to migrate to S3 all stat

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