Selvedge Denim: Love it or hate it? - Topic of the day 2/29/24

What do you love about selvedge denim? What do you hate? Are the r/rawdenim people who never wash their jeans to get the sickest fades really stinky? Is the selvedge line cute or overrated? When will N&F acutally make good cuts?
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119 Replies
s stands for nothing
Selvedge itself is a pointless detail which is best used for identifying fabric nerds
artvandelayimporting
Selvedge deez nuts
Weeg
Weeg9mo ago
I love raw denim I like things that feel sturdy And i like that it wears cool
jorgeragula05
jorgeragula059mo ago
I enjoy my pair of raws, but please everyone wash them regularly.
zeometer
zeometer9mo ago
there is an artistry and craftsmanship to them that i just do not vibe with i'm so sorry
s stands for nothing
I think raw denim is super cool, its just easy to troll on for a variety of reasons... the whole hyper fixation on "fades", not washing, freezing, etc. The tendency of internet nerds to hyper fixate on the fabric and ignore the whole outfit (not really a bad thing I guess, but this is a style forum...). The association with super slim tapered fits. But its still sick
AndrewA
AndrewA9mo ago
Love Selvedge even if it’s an unnecessary detail. I like to cuff my pants and like the Selvedge line even on chinos I used to like raw denim for the deep dark indigo colors and sometimes wished it didn’t fade as much. But I’m into lighter washes and faded denim more and have embraced my own fades. I wash my jeans somewhat frequently so my pairs have more “vintage” fades But my most worn pair is cone denim which apparently doesn’t lend itself to high contrast fades.
Zal ;(
Zal ;(9mo ago
Absolutely love it. Favorite pants material. I destroyed my old pair of Unbranded 501s a few years back after blowing out both knees. I also had a Japan Blue jacket I bought at their flagship store in Kurashiki in Japan, but I wound up getting too big for it after taking up weight training. Now it belongs to my little brother. I just got my first pair in a few years last week and I'm loving them so far
Affluence
Affluence9mo ago
If you get through the weird and false ways that selvedge/raw denim is marketed, the history of the fabric is fun and a unique detail. But I still have a bad taste in my mouth from watching people spend $300 on the shittiest cuts of crappy denim available and having to jump through hoops to justify it. Vintage selvedge is always a cool thing to find. I wouldn't buy selvedge just because it's selvedge, but plenty of super cool types of denim happen to be. Also, wash your jeans. And if you want to preserve the color of your jeans, you shouldn't have bought raw denim in the first place.
Viễn Hắc
Viễn Hắc9mo ago
I like raw denim but in general cause interesting fabric and trying different brands But washing it regularly make it much better imo
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
I like raws but really I just love the little selvedge detail. It makes cuffs look approximately 1bn times better than the sloppy stitching on the outside seam
zacheadams
zacheadams9mo ago
I love raw denim and I especially love raw black denim some of it is way too thicc but some of the medium thicc stuff is great like 13-17oz
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
I'm not super into most weird denim fabrics. Slub always looks like a weird glitch to me since it's irregular but in a repeated way in almost all fabrics. More subtle textures are cool and I'm a sucker for Oni's secret denim but really nice standard raw denim around 13-15oz is where it's at for me most of the time
zacheadams
zacheadams9mo ago
when you get to 18oz ur tippin into the goofy territory over 24 oz is deranged 30 oz you should keep it to kink nights if you're thinkin about wearing it out all the time because it's perverse it's stinky, it's restrictive, it's self-inflicted pain
Elvander
Elvander9mo ago
I love raw denim, I love the story and craft behind it but I'm not a full blooded denimhead. I love that there's an intense weird subculture into denim with all kinds of not entirely rational rules about a particular pair of pants. I'm happy they are out there doing their thing.
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
I'd also prolly buy some Kapital century denim if I had the chance and they fit well but I think that's just me wanting to be as cool as @bishopcorrigan or @Eso🌞 [my friends call me bud]
Spuck
Spuck9mo ago
I really like denim with some pronounced nep to it mmm speckles
s stands for nothing
century denim is sick and looks 100x better when washed only problem is its actually really warm
bishopcorrigan
bishopcorrigan9mo ago
It’s all the denim trust me It’s like the hit Disney channel original movie Like Mike
Spuck
Spuck9mo ago
texture :ohyes:
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Spuck
Spuck9mo ago
I do genuinely need some new jeans soon, my ancient pair of Edwins are falling apart on a cellular level
s stands for nothing
the brown century denim is my favorite
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punchouli
punchouli9mo ago
Selvedge isn’t the best indicator of quality in denim, but is a cool detail. Joker selvedge on the other hand signals to potential mates that you are: -sigma -babygirl coded -not afraid to be a lil funky with it
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Spuck
Spuck9mo ago
Always wanted some rainbow selvedge
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Affluence
Affluence9mo ago
Ironically, century isn’t selvedge
Spuck
Spuck9mo ago
It IS super expensive, which is basically the same thing
s stands for nothing
true back in the day I took a sharpie to the selvedge id on my black denim cause I didnt like how it was not black if I cuffed
AthleisureHandsewn
Selvedge is cool but I rarely cuff jeans these days so 80s/90s Levi’s gets me my 12” rise at a fraction of the price of high rise repro models.
Zal ;(
Zal ;(9mo ago
Hello, fellow alpha genius
s stands for nothing
Another thing which isnt talked about much but has only happened to me with expensive denim... "Marbling" from washing denim can be cool, for example I've seen some sick examples of well washed mid weight denim https://www.reddit.com/r/rawdenim/comments/17ipamf/tcb_50s_jacket_final_form/ , however a few times I've had very dense heavy weight denim form a very strong crease in the wash that simply does not go away and fade in an undesirable way. These pants, for example, I tried washing as much as possible to even out the look, but it never worked
Reddit
From the rawdenim community on Reddit: TCB 50s Jacket final form
Explore this post and more from the rawdenim community
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Talbot
Talbot9mo ago
Yeah I hate that. I think washing inside out is the only way to prevent maybe?
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
You have to skip the spin cycle Anyone have the link to the guy who tried to use a power washer to wash his raws?
s stands for nothing
inside out definitely helps with the actual fades, but the crease remains regardless, and once it forms it stays, regardless of the spin
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
Yeah once it's there you're screwed
Spuck
Spuck9mo ago
ah, yeah, I had that happen to some uniqlo selvedge pair RIP to them
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
ty lmao
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
My not-so-hot takes are: - Most denim companies are just bad fabric companies and they don't make good pants - Most "interesting" denim fabric is just gimmicky and not actually that interesting or cool with some notable exceptions (century denim, secret denim, etc.) - Unique and "fun" selvedge IDs also mostly suck. Just gimme something classic like white with a red stripe or plain white - Vintage fades are way cooler than high-contrast fades esp when you're an office/WFH drone like me and only get ass fades
s stands for nothing
Agree with your hot takes. I'll also add that I think alot of companies miss the mark mainly with their fits, but also they market these wacky fabrics with strange dyes, and then put all that on the inside where you will never see it. I want to see the funky stuff on the outside, not more boring old blue
Digs
Digs9mo ago
I like a middle point between high contrast and vintage fades Like i wanna see some whiskers and what not but not super stark contrast Just a 🤏
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
yeah if you're gonna be funky you have to actually do it. I think that's why I like century and secret denim but not ~anything N&F or Gustin ever put out
Digs
Digs9mo ago
N&F makes dumb denim imo Some of their stuff feels super gimmicky
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
That's always been their schtick. it's obviously popular but I agree prolly my least favorite denim company
Digs
Digs9mo ago
I feel like after looking through the whole pantheon of various denim options i have found that the classics are still my favorite. Cone white oak is up there for favorite fabric Really love my vidalia mills pair from left field as well, really great denim imo
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
All roads lead to repro or the OGs Fullcount I think is doing a really nice job as well
Spuck
Spuck9mo ago
Classic 501s simply do not fit me I have come to accept this
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
There's so many different cuts from over the decades I feel like that can't be true lol
jfarrell468
jfarrell4689mo ago
The mistake I made with selvedge was thinking it was a reliable indicator of "good jeans". And it just isn't. It's a minor detail, at best. It was a moderately expensive mistake, around $200. I've made worse. I'm also not really into rolled hems personally, although that may be an experience/skill issue. If you're using rolled hems as a signifier that you're manly, but fashionable, but mostly you spent a lot of money on pants, I'm not digging it.
Spuck
Spuck9mo ago
"You roll your jeans to look fashionable, I roll mine to show off a slutty bit of ankle, we are not the same"
punchouli
punchouli9mo ago
I just have short legs and going to the tailor for <1" feels like im playing myself
Talbot
Talbot9mo ago
I mean, sometimes you want a rolled pant, and sometimes you dont? A man dabbles
jawntanamo_bae
jawntanamo_bae9mo ago
Selvedge was my first true love and the only high school sweetheart I’ve stayed loyal to. I think it’s a cool detail and there’s so much variation in denim that it’s a neverending fascination for me. Unfortunately there’s also a lot of silly denims that are gimmicky and a lot of jeans with unfortunate patterns. Naked & Famous gets derision because it’s such a prominent example of this, but they’re not the only company who does this. That said, there’s dozens of companies now that have cool jeans and I support an interest in it. Also, wash your jeans folks
Zal ;(
Zal ;(9mo ago
When you go to Japan and ask the Japanese people "how do you get such awesome fades?" They all say "... I just wash them..." Take your jeans outta the damn freezer.
yung_flynn
yung_flynn9mo ago
I can take or leave the selvedge as a detail but I do like the repro cuts that many brands offer. I really appreciate their attention to detail with hardware, recreating vintage fabric, and vintage silhouettes. I also appreciate how many are still relatively small companies run by real craftsmen
Zal ;(
Zal ;(9mo ago
Note** The Japanese hang dry their clothes. Don't throw your raws in the dryer
sharloy
sharloy9mo ago
I don’t like fades so I follow opposite advice
jfarrell468
jfarrell4689mo ago
Absolutely. These are all things that matter a lot more than a silly white ribbon, IMO.
CrispySmokyFrazzles
ooo, defo agree with point 4 - yeah. I've always preferred more subtle fading
bishopcorrigan
bishopcorrigan9mo ago
Actually you can throw your raws in the dryer too it’s fine
artvandelayimporting
they just become medium rares
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
This just in, raws are just pants that tricked you into being a weirdo
Zal ;(
Zal ;(9mo ago
You can do whatever you want. There are no rules
bishopcorrigan
bishopcorrigan9mo ago
The first couple washes they might bleed but after that it doesn’t really matter
goofus
goofus9mo ago
I like raws but hate getting dye on everything 😦
circleframes
circleframes9mo ago
Yeah I just washed my raincoat the other day and noticed it had a blue stripe all along the cotton lining from wearing some full counts on a rainy day also s/o fullcount for doing raw denim in truly wide fits I’m sure this came up but so much beautiful denim wasted on lowrise slim jeans
Carney
Carney9mo ago
i have a lot of jeans and probably around half of them are selvedge. but, of all the selvedge i own, only two of them ever get cuffed so to the average person, it just looks like any other pair of jeans. i just like it because i like it - no other real reason. i also have a bunch of raws (both selvedge and non-selvedge) and prefer vintage fades so im not much of a stickler on the whole washing thing either. just need to be mindful of which pair i wear since some cause more crocking than others so if theres a chance i'll be sitting on light colored furniture or something i'll opt for something thats already faded or wont bleed as much price wise, ive owned decent selvedge as cheap as $50, and non-raw, non-selvedge around the $3-400 range, so i dont think selvedge or raw is a true indicator of price (or quality, for that matter)
jfarrell468
jfarrell4689mo ago
That's why selvedge pockets exist, unfortunately.
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Carney
Carney9mo ago
haha, dont forget the single belt loop with the selvedge ID too
Carney
Carney9mo ago
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awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
I hate these kinds of details lol
Digs
Digs9mo ago
Its way too try hard. Like i’m buying these specifically cause i want you to see they are selvedge
okaylama
okaylama9mo ago
This is actually groundbreaking advice for me lmao. I have noticed this in several pairs of my pants and I've been flustered as to why it happens despite using different washers!
awburkey
awburkey9mo ago
Not as offended by the belt loop but the visible selvedge coin pocket is cringe
Digs
Digs9mo ago
Might as well hang a sign around your neck that says please please please ask me about my super cool jeans
jfarrell468
jfarrell4689mo ago
They should just sew seam the opposite way, so the selvedge is visible all the way up the leg. 🙂
jfarrell468
jfarrell4689mo ago
OF COURSE that's a thing. 😭
jawntanamo_bae
jawntanamo_bae9mo ago
I love these so much
Bigelow
Bigelow9mo ago
Much love to the denimheads who dress well like upsett1 and beans but I'm not into wearing heritage Japanese selvedge raw etc denim and wouldn't suggest it to people who are getting into dressing better I think it's super cool that Japanese brands did the whole repro-but-better thing, I respect it, but I would so much rather buy some $20 vintage relaxed fit jeans than spend 10-20x that on some denimhead denim and go through the process of fading it myself And yeah super cold take but lots of the cuts suck, soooo much slim tapered raw selvedge denim
jawntanamo_bae
jawntanamo_bae9mo ago
Don’t worry, I don’t really get much fades either 😂
Bigelow
Bigelow9mo ago
I guess my point comes down to this, Ethan's jeans look really good here, and they're not selvedge, raw, Japanese, or even expensive
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Affluence
Affluence9mo ago
To steal this thread to discuss this: how the f does one cuff pants like that and have them stay?
Michael
Michael9mo ago
I got into raw denim stuff before I really knew how to dress so now I'm stuck with 2 pairs of really cool jeans in horrible slim tapered cuts. My pair of momotaros is basically my goto pair of house and work pants since I still really like the details and the fabric
jawntanamo_bae
jawntanamo_bae9mo ago
You are entirely correct. IMO the primary draw for selvedge is the history, interesting choices in how fabric is woven and dye techniques, and the crazy variations in textures. None of this is particularly oriented on looking good. There’s a lot of bricked fits with really expensive jeans and a lot of really good fits with cheap jeans.
Bigelow
Bigelow9mo ago
Great take. I think a lot of people got into it for the wrong reasons Like the decade old mfa advised everyone to get slim selvedge denim because it was trending at the time which makes sense
Smiles
Smiles9mo ago
I wouldn't say the wrong reason but I think this idea that if you are into fashion you need to have a pair of selvedge jeans or that selvedge is higher "quality" is completely false. For me if I'm spending money on jeans it's some detailing in the cut or fabric, selvedge doesn't matter. Eg: Century Denim or some other weird Kapital piece, Lemaire twisted denim, SFC fatigue styled denim, idk waxed denim, etc.
jawntanamo_bae
jawntanamo_bae9mo ago
A lot of the things that make some denims the most beautiful and/or interesting are essentially QC flaws anyway
bishopcorrigan
bishopcorrigan9mo ago
Never ever uncuff them
jawntanamo_bae
jawntanamo_bae9mo ago
I have a friend who uncuffs his jeans every night 😭
s stands for nothing
“I’m in this picture and I don’t like it”
jawntanamo_bae
jawntanamo_bae9mo ago
Never fear, the road to swag is paved with bricks
s stands for nothing
It’s actually been quite liberating to donate many expensive denim items recently, since I, and probably many snared by the raw denim world, had this feeling that the clothes were a long term project that would get better with time . Even if I didn’t want to wear them anymore there was this sunk cost fallacy and feeling like there was lost potential. Overall it’s nice to remember they are just clothes and there is no reason to hang on to them just cause I used to like them
allmono
allmono9mo ago
I wore raw selvedge denim almost exclusively for ~15 years, and I have only recently realized how uncomfortable it is compared to washed denim and other types of casual pants. I like the dark indigo color but I don't like how rigid it is.
jfarrell468
jfarrell4689mo ago
After 15 years, I think you're ready to learn about an MFA secret called the "washing machine"
allmono
allmono9mo ago
I wash my raw denim. When I refer to "washed" denim I'm talking about denim that has been treated and is softer, has better drape, etc.
jfarrell468
jfarrell4689mo ago
I was just kidding around. 🙂
KenD
KenD9mo ago
I’m just happy the vast majority of people have left the “not washing for months” and sea wash nonsense behind
walter_crunkite
walter_crunkite9mo ago
Are we talking about jeans made out of denim with a selvedge edge here or are we talking about /r/rawdenim type shit Cuz there are definitely cool brands making denim in a variety of non uncomfortable fits that use selvedge fabric Some of the crazy fabrics I do think are very cool and interesting but I’d never ever ever buy jeans in them
KenD
KenD9mo ago
I’m assuming a lot of this falls under the same umbrella
walter_crunkite
walter_crunkite9mo ago
Like the really slubby stuff
KenD
KenD9mo ago
Kapital century denim mentioned above isnt selvedge but I guess gets coded into r/rawdenim territory at times
Michael
Michael9mo ago
jeans, japan
KenD
KenD9mo ago
And you have brands like Auralee doing selvedge
walter_crunkite
walter_crunkite9mo ago
Yeah there’s a brand /r/rawdenim probably doesn’t care about
jawntanamo_bae
jawntanamo_bae9mo ago
Auralee has some cool jeans
KenD
KenD9mo ago
Really like their cuts but I have enough pants (selvedge denim included) to last me a lifetime
punchouli
punchouli9mo ago
you need more pant
walter_crunkite
walter_crunkite9mo ago
All this to say last time I bought jeans I intentionally bought a pair that were washed and non selvedge
KenD
KenD9mo ago
Thoughts on pre-distressing vs just washed denim?
jawntanamo_bae
jawntanamo_bae9mo ago
I mean same but I will probably still acquire more 🥲
walter_crunkite
walter_crunkite9mo ago
Don’t like pre-distressing, honestly I feel like the Orslow 1 wash is perfection Not what I got but that fabric is so nice
jawntanamo_bae
jawntanamo_bae9mo ago
I’m generally opposed to pre-distressing as well, but I got some jeans in the OrSlow used wash last year and they’re one of my favorite things, I’ve been converted
punchouli
punchouli9mo ago
2 year wash is the perfect pair of jeans for my stubby legged body, they feel perfect
ler
ler9mo ago
warehouse makes really nice washed denim too i think a lot of the flack around raw or selvege denim and that culture is a bit outdated. like /r/rawdenim is hilarious sometimes but most people into it aren't seriously throwing their shit in the freezer or sleeping in their jeans anymore
Legs
Legs9mo ago
I'm a big fan of raw denim, especially repro brands and interesting textures. Selvedge isn't very important to me but I'd be lying if I said I didn't love how it looks cuffed
Spuck
Spuck9mo ago
Denim Thing 😭 Denim Thing Kapital :gigachad:
spiderman
spiderman9mo ago
*autism source: im probably somewhat autistic
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